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I don’t think they can fix it…
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People like Scott and Tofu's inability to see the game from the perspective of other playstyles really dampens their arguments. The chase is not fun for me. It's not the part I most enjoy. Hence why killers like Trapper are my favorite. I enjoy the cat and mouse survivor style and outwitting the killer.. The strategic mindset is what I enjoy. But my favored style of play is constantly denigrated as anti-fun and toxic. Hiding from the killer is not fun. Trapping people is not fun. Instead the fun part is running around a loop. Yeah no thanks.
Never mind that these things involve skill themselves. Yet any conversation of skill in this game invariably centers around "looping". Good looper has become a synonym for high skilled player. And I personally reject this.
I'd say this whole idea of not ballancing the game around top players is pretty idiotic. The whole reason they won't do that is not because of ballance, but because they would get less new players = less money, not because the game wouldn't be fun or more ballanced (both subjective). They could very well ballance around the top players experience and still be a ballanced game, it solely depends on what they did to ballance in the first place, it is not correct to assume it won't work just bc reasons.
People often forget that inexperienced players don't stay inexperienced forever, meaning: the more time passes and you keep ballancing around inexperienced or casual players, the more the game will start to get unballanced.
As an example you can watch how the game was originally designed and how loops and infinite loops became a thing. It wasn't in the original design of the devs, they didn't plan it, but experienced players will learn and they have to deal with it, period. So yes, this game has and will always have to keep in mind the top players, otherwise it will become impossible for either side to play (just like it was necessary to nerf Nurse, Freddy, and other killers that still need nerf possibly there is the need to look out for top survivor players and player data).
If you take inexperienced players as the sole or more important measure you will think the game is pre-historic in terms of the resources survivors and killers have to do their objectives, since inexperienced players are not using the whole potential of their kits. Another problem related to this is the bloodpoints endless farm for newer players. Which they could change by implanting in the MMR system or the base game itself, like something that gave more bloodpoints when you are a starter in the game to make you more on the level of others or
SIMPLY GIVE ALL PERKS and make the farm about items and addons instead to level the playing field for inexperienced players considering this game already have many, many veterans, or rather we should say at least half or more of the players you will find playing are veterans. At least that's what happens here on this server if not weekends.
1:22 You know, if you released a separate mp3 audio track of just you rambling on for half an hour I'd probably listen to it. But yeah youtube algorithm, likely best its not in a video that not everyone would finish.
You could literally grab someone at the start of the match, and facecamp them to death for the first kill, costing 120 seconds plus whatever time it took to catch said survivor, if the team is smart and prioritizes gens and they get out in 4 minutes, the killer has enough time to grab another survivor and keep them there, granted there are hook save perks but most of those could be prevented against with patience and experience. Literally not trying will always guarantee you a win in the devs eyes. I’d rather get 8 hooks and have no one escape than have 2 people die instantly, so that isn’t a good philosophy to me and I think the game needs to move towards a different goal. Of course how easy would it be to push this under the rug if they introduced some gamemode where the survivors have to interact with the killer for some thing that they need to progress, literally introducing variety into this game is a fantastic idea to improving what the experience is mow
Yeah let's change this game for the better guys
#RemoveGenTapping
The success of top % percent of players will always dictate how a large part of the community aspires to play in any game. It would be interesting to see how far you have to go down in %s until you find players how aren't trying to play like them or use their loadouts.
Do you think that is why if most people tried out Soul at Stake again, that they would hate it because they are so used to the chase mechanics? While DBD is hold M one, killers in SAS are purposefully slower than survivors and therefore, the rule of the game is to ambush and set up trap items (spirit wall, bear trap, roaring totem). HOnestly I like it though, because it's still fun when the killer pops out of nowhere. It gives that sort of "oh damn, good play" rather than "ugh, again???"
I’ve been saying this game is more competitive than casual for some time now. Not everyone is in the comp scene, but everyone is competitive to a certain degree.
Off topic but its been a year since cross progression was confirmed and we still havent gotten it for switch
Getting your ass kicked all game and then killing 3 survivors on first hook somehow still feels like a loss. Similarly, killing only 1 survivor with 3 hooks and having the other 3 escape on death hook feels like a win, and you also probably got more BP than anyone that game.
3:25 apply that logic to… mario party. I guess mario party is the next eSports
What’s funny is back when weren’t that much DLC like legion and spirit were just coming out the styles of play we’re pretty diverse . That is compared to nowadays with it’s pretty basic killer formula and survivors bringing these strange but very useful perks . Which is another thing how dlc killers and survivors used to have pretty good perks for both . Except for the fact over time killer perks became more of “wth is this even for “ and survivors side is basically “this is just broken” . My point is that BEHR is down bad lately and time will tell what happens next
3:59 did…. did that leon just ran through a trap without activating it?!?!
hag is boring
I've always hated the 2 kills is normal mentality. I hate playing those specific killers that have a max of two kills a game. It doesn't feel rewarding knowing that playing your best can only ever get you two kills with weaker killers. You don't feel threatening which leads me to playing the ones I know I can do better with. I also enjoy playing all killers as it gives me more and varied ways of playing but have to avoid certain killers like Trapper, Myers simply because I don't feel threatening when playing them. Mediocre does not equal fun or thrilling.
The problem is they think every Killer needs the same conditions. What they need to do is adjust the Pip System to reflect each Killer individually. Nurse and Spirit can have an amazing game and 4k at 5 gens in just a few short minutes. The Pip system says they did terrible though. Meanwhile, Killers like Doctor, and Legion are all about drawing the Match out. Taunting survivors with a slow crawl of wounds and madness. Trapper and Hag are mainly about Domain Control.
The Pip System could be altered to give each Killer a unique Pip Score according to that Killer to ensure that the Devs can express a clear win condition for each Killer. A Trapper should try to get 4 Kills, but his main goal should be tormenting the Survivors with traps and controlling a zone. Meanwhile a Plague shouldn't be pushed into Bullrushing with Blood Vomit and instead should be rewarded in slowly tormenting the Survivors with pestilence.
And you might be saying "These are all slow and daunting tasks". Exactly. They need to slow down the game to fall back on what this game is meant to be…a Horror game. The Killer should never be in a situation when survivors are so cocky they can teabag and bully the Killer. Its a Horror game for God's sake. The Survivors shouldn't die and be hook camped and the match end so quickly for them either. The game of Dead By Daylight is advertised as a Horror game of Cat and Mouse. The Mouse, Survivors, goal is to flee in terror away from the predator. They can stall the Killer by dashing into a Mouse Hole(Pallets and Windows) but that just slows the inevitable.
When a Survivor escapes they should be panting from fear and adrenaline as they barely escaped with their life. Not laughing and teabagging at the exit gate because they looped the Killer for days on end and did 4 gens in his face.
My win conditions include good shocks/shots into bonks/stabs, 4 stacks od BBQ, and maybe 2-3 kills. As long as one of those are checked I'm happy.
Wait. What band were you talking about?
I said this in another thread, but the use of “boring” by a streamer boils down to the “Streamer Rule Book”. What is that? It’s everything that said streamer either can’t play against, or doesn’t like. There is no difference between the “Survivor Rule Book” and the “Streamer Rule Book”. They are both BS!
Anyone gunna talk about the mediocrity of this year's anniversary?
I thought the win condition was pipping? It gets you more points and you rank up. I thought they made it perfectly clear by survivors depipping from doing little and escaping. And by Killers getting a 4K and depipping. It just feels like a portion of the player base doesn't want to accept these as losing. Just my opinion.
We do need to remind the devs that it's our game. Too bad all the fog whispers are busy sucking the devs off for them to join the boycott. It's funny that True will complain every game but not do a thing about it, because hes a bottom feeder swimming in DbDs wake
I've been playing Killer for over a year but I rarely get a kill unless I tryhard, I want to relax when I get home so I kill but if I cant get a single kill and get teabagged that is not fun or balanced, that is being a bully
Sometimes everyone can 'win' In some matches I'm sacrificed but I completed my tomb challenge to thats a win. Or if I manage to hit a few super sick hatchet shots with huntress it can be a win even if they all escape. With no set win condition you can simply declare you've won if you had fun playing, and really no one can definitively say you didn't win.
I would love you to elaborate your points in another video tbh.
Love your videos coconut
Isn’t there already a win condition for killer? Isn’t it when you score a Merciless Killer?
I’ll always say it when a gen can get done in 45 seconds and typically at a minimum a chase will be 30s on a really good down it shows the balance. My best is there minimum. Not to mention bringing them to the hook for another 10-15 seconds. So about 45 seconds for a chase again it has to be good this is without a pallet or vaulting stalling the time. I have to do that 12 times as 1 person and they have to do it 5 times with 4 players. So at a minimum with 45 seconds 12 chases we are looking at 5:40 compared to 5 gens 45seconds which is 2:25.
Laughs in deathslinger main
I don't play much survivor, but i just see the win/lose criteria as very straightforward for survivor. do i escape? if so, i won. if not, i lose.
I have much more experience as a killer main. 0-1 kills is a loss, 2 kills is a draw, 3 kills is a win, 4 kills doesn't happen because i usually give hatch. Personalyy, i don't see getting the most hooks possible that important. If they reach second stage by themselves, yay, les work for me. if i hook everyone twice, then they all escape, even though i had 8 hooks, which is equivalent to 2 kills, i see that as a loss.
Good points. Let’s get this game back on track. There’s an elephant in the room and they do not see him 😂
What song was he talking about? Cause I actually don’t know lol
ever since i drop to rank 15 killer i been enjoy the game more . slug all the game no hook to prevent up pip
#deadbyboycott
2:06 Yes, this! I've been saying this for ages! If it at least took a skill check from survivors to begin generator repair and stop regression, that would at least slow the game down a little bit.
I think you are off the mark here.
I don't remember Tofu and if he said this but I know for sure Scott Jund said that there has to be a way to make it more fun for both sides.
These are not survivor mains you are talking about here, they are both primarily killer mains.
Well Tofu was atleast but now he plays survivor because killer has become to boring.
The hold W meta is real now and it's not only real it's the ONLY PLAY against some killers.
That is the issue.
It becomes boring to play since there is no other real option.
Your insight and opinions are the primary reason I was drawn to your channel.
Your witty sarcasm is a close second tho.
Space, you really didnt have to call out the red hot chili peppers like that dude. Jokes, great video
"But we are gonna slip over that…"
Y THO
The problem with 2 kills = 2 escapes is killers don't pip with only 2 kills 90% of the time, because of how fast the game ends.
You could argue that every single Killer has some sort of Loop Management. Ranged attacks to harrass pallet campers, traps, bottles, shocks, leaps, fast vaults or speed, teleports or extreme speed. Even Bubba has loop mitigation as part of his core kit and hes the only one I can think of that you could argue has the most basic looping strategy, but hes even fast on loops, and shreds pallets. The killer design is not really a trend, its just always been that way, they are just getting more obvious about it.
Calling it the hold W meta like that is a negative is a bit stupid because you can loop and you can W away and the best players know when to do both. Mind game one Tile till the pallet is dropped and then just W out of the next tile leaving the killer to wonder what happened.
Within the W meta there is risks as well. Unless the SWF is oracle the longer a survivor is holding W the higher the risk he kites the killer across objectives disrupting that, and if the survivor is kiting to Done Gens or Corrupt gens early the killer needs to not be stupid and break chase and pressure the objectives. Being mad that every encounter with a survivor does not results in a sweet 3 minute showdown at the Killer shack complete with 360s, moonwalks and doublebacks is stupid. Like the game is 5 years old, imagine needing the same pellet fed to you over and over for 5 years.
The Meta argument regarding Chase direction is stupid, like what an actual waste of brain cells.
I would say the real issue for balance that BHVR should be focusing on is that with no clear objectives there is a tenuous social contract people adhere to loosely to somewhat balance the game and its entirely voluntary and the people who create toxicity are generally the people blink first and eschew the social contract to win. For killers this means camping and tunneling, and for survivors its gen rushing, being immersed(and I would say being greedy on gen progression when they have a teammate hooked, and not providing reasonable hook trades etc)
People think Tunneling is bad so BHVR put in Borrowed Time and Decisive Strike to counter those strategies, and people hate slugging so there is No Mither, Unbreakable and Soulguard. What if they did MORE, like really really really thought about the issue and fixed it at the core? Not just slap band aids on it with perks?
Same for Killers. I think kicking Gens is tedious and you have to do it but when you do you run the risk of giving the Survivor too much of a head start to a safe tile so you have to choose between downing a survivor more reliably and losing the Gen or kicking the gen and then probably losing both. 2 seconds is a long time.
What if all Gens just regressed at like 50% speed if they are not being worked on? and if you kicked them it would just do like 3% regression move the regression speed to 100%? and then just make Ruin a regression speed multiplier based on how many gens are left or something. Imagine killers not having to take ruin/undying base kit?
Same thing with Pallets, its just such a tedious waste of time on so many maps. Just change pallets to work in 2 ways. If you stun the killer, the pallet breaks,and add a second or two to the stun time. If you pre drop it they have to destroy it as per normal.
anyways they have a lot of just little quality of life changes they could make that would speed the game up, and the faster the game plays the more exciting it will be regardless of whos holding W or not.
I think a good game state to shoot for balance-wise is 10 hooks, 5 gens done, and 2 survivors escape. Killers should be busy little bees. You want to actually stop tunneling? Have a hook streak bonus for killers that gives them a cool flaming aura as they 'heat up' and gives them more blood points and also some minor in game effect like +2% swing recovery per consecutive hook on a different survivor. They already have Save the best for last, and Play with your food, killers definitely know how to bend over backwards to farm stacks, and sure you can still camp and tunnel and win but you will have this "hes on fire!" NBA jam reward for playing in a more fun way.
Have Whispers just be base kit on Killers or Spies in the Shadows etc something to help baby killers find their quarry a little quicker(I think this is actually Nemesis's most underrated kit honestly)
Actually nevermind that, just incentivize Survivor to play in a more engaging way, again with in game bonuses and callouts.
Also there are things that if you really think about it, I am amazed the game even works at all. For example, if a Killer downed every survivor he chased within 30-90 seconds, and then hooked them, and walked away to find the next 30-90 second chase. I think if a killer actually just did that, unless the survivors just played like absolute idiots the killer literally cannot actually win. 1 minute per hook is 12 minutes and a lot of games dont go that long. not counting the time between chases..
The other big issue is that they need to freaking admit that a lot of perks are more powerful in some killers hands than in others. Noed on Trapper vs Nurse is totally different power levels. So many perks behave off the rails differently in the S tier killers vs the B tier and lower, and the unevenness of it is jarring. Devour Hope spirit can just be demoralizing, vs a Devour Hope Clown player. If we are being honest Ruin is a big example of a perk that should vary in effectiveness based on what killer is using it.
Oh well thats a wall of text. Sorry!