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I’m fine with the DS buff. My issue with it being a 5s stun is that locking the most powerful anti tunnel tool in the game behind a paywall is scummy. It’s even worse than stuff like Pain Res, OTR, or Pop because Halloween is a LICENSED chapter.
The the same thing that give the survivors the hatch gives something to hit the killer that will last till 3-2 gens…after that the entity will break it.
new DS is 3.6 sec, and also u can hook a person with ds if u down them near a hook now which can happen but not often. slightly better than before but still ass vs blight or a huntress/ nurse etc.
I’d make ds a base kit and make it get weaker as the game goes on 4 seconds at 4 gens 3 at 3 and so on I would also make it so when surivours get unhooked they lose
Colission so they can’t protect there team mate and in exchange ads a few seconds to the bt effect they get
Maybe DS could be basekit for everyone now for 4 seconds and the perk instead will increase stun duration from pallets by 1 second? It can get rid of the pay wall at the very least
I saw a DS buff suggestion on reddit once which I really liked to make the stun time vary depending on how many gens are left. I think a good idea could be to rework a rarely used general survivor perk to be anti-tunnel using a similar system.
For example, a Slippery Meat rework: Increases the Haste effect after being unhooked by 2% for every generator the team still needs to complete. So at 1 gen left, an unhooked survivor would move at 112% speed for 10 seconds, while at 5 gens they would move at 120% speed for 10 seconds. Also increases the length of the flourish animation after the killer hits the survivor within 10 seconds of being unhooked by the same amount.
just playing devil's advocate here: the devs have come out and said that the ds buff is NOT meant to remove tunneling. and in that reddit/twitter post where peanits specified as such, they were careful to choose their words in a way such that they didnt suggest that anything was coming to assist with tunneling. take from that what you will, i just think its fair to point out as much in this odd new era where the devs are getting more praise than they deserve lately.
that being said, there is already a weak anti-tunnel mechanic in the game: thats what base kit borrowed time is supposed to be. whether or not it does what it was intended for is another debate, but it does exist. (and also to play devils advocate: you can say the same thing about the anti camp self unhook)
3:49 – something no one seems to account for is sometimes the killer isnt actually tunneling, he just so happened to hook the same survivor back to back at 5 gens, allowing him to check for decisive strike. he then eats a 5 second stun with 4-5 gens remaining, which is much less punishing than eating it at 1 or 2 gens left. someone who plays fair and doesnt check for ds actually falls victim to "no good deed goes unpunished" compared to someone who tunnels straight out the gate, even though the killer who did it maliciously is the one who deserves it the most.
Just wanna say I like the new format.
Remove "conspicuous action" as a downside of all perks, problem solved.
DS should basekit and deactivate at 2-3 gens like Anti Facecamp in Endgame
I think a basekit anti-tunnel mechanic is something the game definitely would benefit from, and having DS be like new BT would be the best case scenario. I think the main issue with tunnelling in DBD as a killer main (barely touch survivor honestly) is that even though yes there are alot of cases where it is fair, that doesn't really matter when it sucks to play as the survivor, and as someone who is confident enough in their killer play to say they are just okay, sucks to do against most survivors. I personally don't really mind DS being buffed back up to 5s, but its more the principal of "hey everyone should have access to this mechanic".
On the other hand though, you cannot nerf tunnelling into the ground without SOME recompense for killers, while its not nice to say, tunnelling, camping, 3-gen'ing and slugging are all somewhat necessary to even have a chance against good survivors (and when i say good survivors i mean 4 actually good players who know how to loop and have decent gamesense, not "on discord" or "using meta builds and map offerings", wannabee comp nerds if you will). It's one of those things where i don't like the idea of just punishing tunnelling because it feels like a slippery slope where at some point as a killer you just end up relying purely on your slowdown perks, which as someone who loves running perks like enduring and BBQ I would despise, not to mention it would basically be the killer equivalent of needing paywalled perks to compete.
Have you ever tried using a tunneling build on killer?
I will never understand the tunneling convo yes I get it its not fun. I've been tunneled before yet I dont get the despise towards it. Instead of raging about it. I figured out ways to get out of it and lose killers. I have damn near every chapter in this game and I've never used decisive strike cause I think it's a fucking waist to begin with. I rather run lithe, dance with me, or even fucking cut loose than have ds. It's a waist to me and a one way ticket to get fucking slugged. The whole idea of trying to fix a fucking choice people want to make for an entire side just mind boggles me. Arent video games supposed to have freedoms? Tf are you punishing someone for for excerisizing their freedoms in a game. I'm all for the anti camping that is bs and it honestly brings no fun to either side. Yet tunneling you just remove an entire side of the games fucking freedom simply because you dont like. And it isnt unable to be countered like camping. You can learn how to chase better, in play more chase builds and perks, learn maps better even if you are casual learning fundamentals of the game and simply attempting to get better at it will in fact make the game funnier. You'll take fun in getting chased. Honestly th ought survivors would rather get chased around all day than sit on a gen but I guess I was wrong
Nothing will stop people using a strategy that works for them
Survivors have base kit omniscient map presence because they are allowed to use third-party software for an infinitely huge advantage. tunneling doesn't even come close to making up for that.
Well gen rush is the same problem but because it only affect killers you don't talk about it
We are talking about an ex-indie company that makes over 350 million dollars per year. Do you think they got all that money just from skins? They still need to sell the chapters. Most likely the insane twins buff is the result of people not being the chapter. The only cool thing about the chapter is Elodie's model and that's it.
Basically everything is pay to win, unless you want to sink in about 70 hours JUST to unlock a character and their perks. And pray to RNGsus that the licensed perks will be in the shrine.
The game is $20, then the rift is $10 (you buy it once, you basically own it forever as long as you play the game; it's a retention mechanic basically), then you have skins (most people buy the $10 or $15 skins with money, the rest are purchased with iri shards most of the time), then you have characters. I think BHVR hates the fact that they made DLCs such a great deal. Now they are even cheaper, but they sell more characters at once. Why? Because nobody is buying certain chapters.
The bundles appeared in the store because NOBODY is being certain chapters or characters. Especially Twins. You can kinda figure out how often the chapters are purchased based on how many killers of the same type you see.
Just imagine if BHVR would make the game free to play, would remove all licenses (and refund people in auric cells for skins and character purchases), have a progression based on unlocking killers and actually care about our time. Of course they wouldn't do that! Because cheaters would become a bigger problem (and they don't care anyway) and the only reason why DBD is still alive is because of licenses.
Nah, I play killer way too much and I agree with everything basically.
Some might say dead hard is an anti tunnel perk. It could almost be better than off the record in the sense that dh is the only endurance perk that doesnt go away when you touch a gen or heal someone. And that perk is free with david. Then theres also Bill who comes with unbreakable. So survivors have a free anti tunnel perk and the most vital anti slug perk in the game. If you dont want to be tunneled in dead by dayligjt then when you get off that hook you have to treat it like its your last chase.
You make a good point, it being locked behind a $$$ chapter. I for one would be ok with it being weak but basekit
Anti tunneling and anti slugging mechanics need to be in the game for the better health of the game and keep it going strong in the future. Killers need nerfs and need to be punished for how they play in certain ways hands down. And not play like absolute trash to make the game way easier do to major skill issue on every single killers part. Once they nerf killers to a point that makes the games fair and you can't "cheat" to win, it will help the game as a whole. It's the killers fault all these things are being put in game, 3 gens, face camp, hook grabs, all toxic killer play styles. So in. The end the killers are ruining this game to it's core rotting the game play, and are in need of many more nerfs this year.
Tunneling no matter the time isn’t really problematic and it’s a sign of taking the game way too seriously to assign certain playstyles(note playstyles, not perks or perk combinations) as bad or “not healthy” for the simple reason that they are strong. Gen rushing is strong and very uncounterable since survivors can just split up and/or run strong stuff to decrease gen time and make it so that they are playing against time rather than killer skill. That has no interaction on the killer’s side that could just stop a gen rush from happening whereas with tunneling has a lot of counter-plays(although the affects can be mitigated by strong killers like Xeno, nurse, blight, or spirit that also take not a lot of interaction). In addition to just looping well survivors have strong second chance perks like off the record, deadhard, adrenaline, etc. that add time to chase with very little interaction from the killer and adding any more anti tunneling would make M1 killers unplayable at high levels.
Here's a basekit anti-tunnel idea:
The last Survivor to have been hooked will wiggle out of the Killer's grasp 20% faster. This effect is lost once you escape the Killer's grasp.
It still requires the Survivor to have good game sense, as this effect does nothing if they are downed a meter away from a hook. Since it only works once per hook stage, it doesn't make you utterly immune to tunneling, it just gives you a greater chance to stall for time or get to safety. Think of it as a slower-acting DS where instead of instantly freeing yourself, you do it at a faster-than-base speed.
For Killers, it no longer encourages instant tunneling because tunneling can take significantly longer due to the faster escape; Killers can still tunnel in late-game scenarios when Survivors start running out of resources because once the faster escape is deactivated the Survivor may get caught out again due to a lack of resources like pallets. Numbers can be tweaked however necessary, but adding some more risk to tunneling would make it more of a hail-Mary long-shot than an instantly powerful strategy.
The question is why killers tunnel at 5 gens? It is because of how braindead easy survivor objective is and how strong survivor side is. Killers are only reactive in this game and every match starts with survivors having the upper hand. Add MMR to that and you have the current state of DBD. The game also forces tunneling by not rewarding mixing hooks at all.
What about this:
– DSbasekit: 3 seconds, twice per game, dehactivates with conspicuous actions, dehactivates in the endgame, while active you do not have collision with the killer
– This is not happening: Reworked, +2 seconds on DS basekit
– Decisive strike: Reworked, the killer loses the m2 and control for 10 seconds (the devs said it is not possible but we know it is) OR OTHERWISE the killer suffers blindness and hindered for 5 seconds after the stun ends.
If something like this happens I think it is legitimate the killer receive corrupt intervention basekit thou.
I think they should just ad vc. It would probably solve alot of issues or at least show their builds to the team.
Also i think it's fair killer can tunnel it is 4v1
And they have a ton of second chance perks.
we need a bandaid fix (which is ds buff) untill they add in a better option to help tunneling, but weather they do that or not is up to bhvr ultimately and how much tunneling stops once ds is in meta again, 90% of my games are people purposefully tunneling in bad faith, not to catch up in matches,
my friend also gets tunneled just for being prestige 100, and they wont change because they dont wanna be bullied off of their favorite character
This idea of tunnelling only happens when wla survivor gets caught. This probably means either the survivor did a poor job looping or their teammates did a poor job staying on gens. Tunnelling is not a good strategy
Let's be PERFECTLY real here – base kit BT exists, and that's more than enough. Even increase the time of it if necessary, but it's fine. The reason it's not taken seriously is because survivors, 80% of the time, try to use it offensively to tank a hit rather than getting away from the killer.
a set up that punishes tunneling until its needed sound interesting. like a ability that is only available until 2 gens are done? i feel like the pig meta of not popping gens would quickly become king.. which would be a little interesting.
Sometimes killer has no choice but to tunnel unfortunately, in a perfect world we wouldnt have this issue but with how ungodly fast gens go and how many second chance perks there are now and days. I dont blame a killer for having to tunnel
It’s barely even a buff in general, if at all. The animation is delayed and takes up more time while doing it, it’s barely any different from the live game.
it takes 35 hours to get zarina for 4500 shards to unlock otr for free. on it's own that is ok but then you gotta consider that means choosing this specific survivor over someone else you might want to play or even cosmetics so you run around with free or default skins which also incentivizes more tunneling (screams easy target) and is not what the brand new players need. having some kind of general perk or weak basekit measure would be great
I don't think the point misses unless you fail the skill check 😃
I agree trapping DS behind a paywall is not fair on newer players. One suggestion, which is built off another idea others have had, would be have DS deactivate at 2 gens but make the stunn before that something really punishing like 4 seconds at 3 gens, 6 seconds at 4 gens and 8 seconds at 5 gens. Those aren't exact number suggestions per say but you get the general idea. Unless you're playing for money noone needs to hard tunnel at 5 gens and sometimes that isn't always the best way to apply pressure in the early game anyway, map and killer depending. Also to add, if this was base kit I think that would be cool and they can change DS to something else entirely but hey I don't make da rules. Nice video btw.