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Kinda why I still feel like the old system they had in place was better where it went of rank, primarilly for the following reason
Another factor that went unmentioned in relation to the longer queue times for fairer matches, is that if I'm high MMR which unfortunately I am, I dont want EVERY GAME to be a sweat fest. I'm not saying I want every game to be a cakewalk, but sometimes its fun to take my foot off the gas and chill. Perhaps even meme with the survivors. It gets incredibly fruatrating when I HAVE to enable and force scummy tactics or optimize every single move I make for the sake of actually getting to play a decent game without getting steamrolled and mocked.
That statement mainly applies to killer than it does survivor. Killers can't really just "go next" as much as survivors can as it requires 4 people to leave the game as opposed to just yourself.
I've had games I've won that have sucked MUCH more than games I've lost and as a result were much less fun because of the stress involved with what it took to acheive that result. The old system allowed for a bit of a dice roll on whether the match would be a comp squad or just some chill and semi-decent players in it for a good time.
MMR has forced a "sweat mentality"
It is impossible to get to Iri 1 as a solo, they should probably remove depipping too.
Fix is showing mmr in game. Yeah sure, continue saying its not competetive game blah-blah. But fact is most of players complains is about mmr which is a competetive side of gaming. Games like league, dota, overwatch, apex etc have this, so people more willing to sit in longer queue if they fight for top spots in rank (I don't say they like it, I say they more willing to because they see that as price for, as example, top10 rank in world). Also this help with problem where new players get bulied. Now clown content creaters can't sit in shit mmr and act like they top dog in game. Also number you see work as motivator to improve.
Sure people can say it's bs and bhvr need find other way. I mean, they try all this time and situation not look so bright…
I'm a scrub in DBD and quit playing a year ago. My experience was basically that I can get matches within 10 second, but those matches are rarely fair. I would say 80% of the matches were really really one sided, 10% was kind of fair, 10% was trolling and messing around.
I have to be with Hens on this. I would rather have 2-5 minute queue if that helps me to have balanced matches. Ultimately I better off time wise as I still have to waste 10-15 minutes on a one sided match I dont enjoy. If I play 2-3 hours a day, that means I get 1-2 less matches overall, but the quality and enjoyment of those matches is much higher. Worthy trade in my opinion.
I think this should be a checkbox in the settings. Do you want to be more accurate pairing of elo or you want low queue times? Everybody can decide what is important for them and ultimately it wouldnt really divide the playerbase either.
Personally, I'm more likely to side with Hens on this one. If BHVR were to properly segment off MMR brackets, only those in the top couple of MMR brackets would actually have longer wait times, meanwhile those in the lower brackets would still get relatively quick queues. New players would be matched with the new / inexperienced players, and this depiction would keep rising as you climbed your way up the MMR bracket.
Yes, in that example it would be possible for someone to go into an MMR bracket that they stand no chance in, but in my opinion that's a couple of rough/hard games and you're back in the MMR bracket you belong in where the game is more enjoyable and relatively fair for everyone playing it. I also would side with everyone saying that MMR should be shown, but on top of that I'd like to see them tell us what the actual MMR brackets are if they implement showing us what our MMR is, both for clarity and deciding whether you like the bracket you're in, whether you want to climb, or whether you want to throw a few games or just mess around and have fun not caring if you lose so you can drop down a bracket and have more relaxed games.
On top of all of that, the MMR decay is abysmal. Back when Blight first came out, I played him quite a bit and had frequent matches lasting 4-6 minutes. I then took a break for almost a year, and when I came back I was facing people well out of my league when I decided to run Blight again to re-learn him and try to take off some of the rust. I still refuse to play blight unless I have a ritual for him because of this. I enjoy facing players that are better than me because I like the challenge and being able to learn how to play better, but I'd also be lying if I said it's not frustrating when everything you're trying to do is something those survivors have been facing competent players doing for quite some time before you lobbied into them, thus giving them the means to easily counter whatever you're doing.
To further exacerbate this issue, I'm a 645 hour killer main, with maybe 40 of those hours played on survivor side with friends or for tome challenges. Recently on survivor side while doing tome challenges, I faced a 7,000 hour killer main. I'm not a comp player, and I dislike playing survivor because it's just not something I find enjoyment in unless I'm playing with friends. There is no world in which I should be facing someone with that many hours when I play survivor. This same issue applies when I play killer games. I frequently check steam profiles to see what I'm going up against, and it's become increasingly more common to see 4000-8000 hour survivor players against me. 16,000-32,000 hour lobbies not including my own play time are increasingly becoming the norm for me, and those games tend to be extremely frustrating due to the vast difference in game knowledge and experience between myself and the survivors.
To cap things off, MMR Gain/Loss should absolutely be changed, but not just for the survivor side. I agree that survivors should be going with a SWF system where 3-4 escapes = MMR gain for the entire team, 2 escapes is a slight loss for the dead and a slight gain for the escaped, and 1 escape or fewer is an MMR loss for the team. For both sides, I think things like giving up on first hook should be accounted for as well. I feel like if the survivor who gave up on the first hook did so not during the end-game state (all gens done, exit gates powered), that they should take on the brunt of the MMR loss, while also not affecting the killer or survivor-side MMR gain/loss. I've had far too many games where someone simply doesn't like going against the killer I'm playing, so they'll either give up on first hook, or they'll stand in front of a hook pointing at it trying to get out of the game without facing a leaver penalty. They do practically nothing other than buy their team 20-60 seconds, and I have to put it little to no effort for a kill. Killers should not be rewarded for that, nor should the other survivors just trying to play the game be punished for it either. An actual bot would be a better teammate at that point.
I enjoy keeping the que time low. I have always taken a different take on the matches than most. I learn so much more from the games I get put up against the better players. I would not of improved as fast if I had not. The mmr for survivors does need a fix. In my opinion it should be point based and/or escape. This could be done easily by establishing the threshold of points based on what would be considered acceptable as “win”. Then you would climb based on how well you play the game even when put on a team.
I mean the majority of dbd playerbase are casual or decent, Hens is a comp player so he have no problem waiting 20min for a perfect game.
I would have rather 2 modes unranked (under 10min) and ranked (above 10min)
I mainly played survivor and i got 470hrs in total and someday i decided to play huntress and i got pretty good and hard stomp baby survivor , BUT i climb that MMR and got more and more queued with ppl that have in between 1500hrs-8000hrs , and someday i LITTERALY FACED Pedro from Team Eternal ??? as a main survivor who time to time play huntress got queued with a comp player??? obviously i loosed , and now 4/5 of my killer game are with sweaty survivors…. (i was recording my huntress game so i got the game as a proof aha)
Why cant more gain/loss be tied to blood points gained during match per category with 4k being the draw so you have 4 categories to gain/lose more from with skill being taken into account
How survivor mmr works is literally the opposite of fast pace games, because it promotes hiding and not participating in chase or interacting with killer, because they're risky. Which ends up with Distortions etc. being prevalent in high mmr (because people who hide get promoted, while those who participate in the game get punished).
Btw. about whole mmr thing – it definietly makes killer games more stressful (a common complaint I've noticed). And if devs will make it tighter they will inevetibly start losing that "golden" 60% kill rate, because high mmr killers will get high mmr survs often, and they will get obliterated (because in the end, while common surv is weaker than killer, top mmr surv is way stronger), which in the end will cause them to create a plethora of frustrating to play against killers that will decimate low mmr just because high mmr will be dragging it down.
So I'm wondering – maybe they should add more ranks? And bring back rank based matchmaking with mmr touch (so like in most pvp games you wouldn't just be matched with people of your mmr, but also with people at or around your rank). So that way game would prioritize ranks, then check for mmr, to give the best results? And for the love of stuff, they have to give up with that 60%. That won't ever happen without making the game unhealthy and unbearable, because you can't balance the disparity of 4 weak people in weak role against 1 weak person in strong role and 4 great people against 1 great person, without making one of the sides suck to experience. We already are seeing how they are making hard to play killers mind numbingly easy which causes major issues for low to mid level survivor players, especially solos.
Totally unrelated, but i've had queue times longer than 30 mins on Idv… thats was a long time ago so yea💀
Yeah hatch can be a lot of luck but the other times the hatch escape can be a baller move
6:57 5-6 minutes? That’s rookie numbers, I’ve tried queueing with just one or 2 of my friends and it can easily go up to 15-20 minutes
They should of just kept the old rank system but worked on it a little bit. I still think it worked better than what we have now
I remembered pre mmr I won 80 percent of my killer games and survived pretty much the same. I had more fun than compared to now. That's the deal right. You get a inflated ego and the 80 percent is your expectations, and when you can not achieve that gam, it is not as fun. Have that said after a year off my last month has been ok as my expectations are lowered. I just realized that I can not play certain killers like my pig (hopefully rework helps) or I won't have fun. I only play about 10 killers now and do pretty good. I don't run sweat builds, but it seems like it doesn't really matter. For me, I know Trapper is considered garbage, but for me, understanding maps and pathing, I win with him almost every time. But is what it I usually play the role offering most BP and if que is more than 5 minutes I play a different game
I do agree with you, I really do, I think my one gripe is that because dbd is a team based game on survivor, if all survivors don't win because of one weak link or two, I think that could be very demeaning and frustrating and that really needs to be skirted around properly, but I fully agree with everything else and I love your videos, very well put and civil and fair!
To be fair, I prefer the old Rank system instead of the current version of MMR. It had it's flaws (mostly that it was very easy to get into red ranks and that the pip system is not perfect) but you now what your exact MMR is, you actually had to engage with the game in order to build it up (not just killing or escaping, which most of the time it doesn't really reflexes your skill, specially for survivors)
Competitive dbd sounds like such qn oxymoron
Ive never understood why squads are graded individually. It encourages selfish game play instead of teamwork
Vhs had long que times and it's why i never played that often. Sad it got shut down. It had alot of potential
Great video, I agree with everything you said. The solution has to be somewhere in the middle between insane queues and stomping babies all night
Except losing ELO is not a punishment as there is 0 reward for it being high, 0 penalty for it being low, and no not even bragging rights as without hacking you don't even know what your number is.
Queue times literally killed VHS by the end. Solid game or not, 20+ minute queues are unbearable.
hot take I kind of want a server browser along with modding tools added to the game so that people can make really fun custom games with modded killers custom maps etcetera
The only thing I can really think of, and I think they already do this to an extent, is separate queues for baby players. If you're below this level of MMR, you will NOT go against players who exceed it, and maybe make MMR at that point build slower until it hits the soft cap. This does keep the issue of queue times being a problem for newer players, so maybe make and exception if the wait goes over, like, 5 minutes to start dipping into the low MMR lobbies.
I dunno, that's not really an issue that anyone can just snap their finger and fix — I sure as shit know that if the waiting time gets too bad I'm not gonna be playing — happened when Chucky released: everyone was playing him, which meant Killer queue was a waiting simulator, probably gonna happen when Unknown comes out if everyone decides to give a crack at it too.
I do agree, though, that Survivors need a rework to their victory condition, and I like the idea of it being the inverse of KIllers where two Survivors escaping is a draw, three and four is a win, and one is a loss. Only issue I can maybe see is Survivors giving up if they get down to two because they're MMR won't get higher even if they win? Maybe make it so the Survivor who escapes still gets a win, but the three or two who were killed lose?
I agree with both of you here, they just need to find a balance between queue times and accuracy. I distinctly remember the PTB where matchmaking was introduced the first time and twins players (Dowsey specifically, idk about others twins mains) had queue times in the range of hours becaude they 4Ked every game and the SBMM system wasn't geared to deal with that. Of course I don't want people queuing for 2 hours like he did, but I think most people would be willing to wait 2-3 minutes for a match that will last 8-15 minutes