Read more Dead by Daylight ➜ https://deadbydaylight.mgn.gg
With the continued question, what do you consider a win, why do you tunnel, camp, why does a 3k mean more than a 2k? I talk about what the Developers consider a win and why you should just take the game as you want to.
Stream everyday – https://www.twitch.tv/manfacejay
TimeZones for Streams
20:30 UK
Every Day.
—————-
More about Dead By Daylight:
A group of up to four survivors must elude one killer. The survivors’ perspectives are third-person, while the killer’s perspective is first-person. The survivors cannot fight against the killer and can only survive by running away and evading them. They must use obstacles in the form of wooden pallets, windows, and items that they either find inside chests or bring before the match starts to run from the killer for as long as they can. In order to escape, survivors must repair 5 generators scattered across the entire map to power the exit gates, then they must open the exit gates and leave the area themselves or find a hatch to jump into.
TWITCH – https://www.twitch.tv/manfacejay
DISCORD https://discord.com/invite/XeqAQV7
TWITTER: https://twitter.com/ManFaceJay
#DBD
#Deadbydaylight
otzdarva, no0b3, TRU3TA1ENT
source
I agree with a lot of what you said. It's a very difficult game to balance. However, removing the Nurse herself feels weird to me. Maybe it's because she's been around for so long. Perhaps an alternative to outright removing her that's been done to another Killer before: changing her powers. Freddy has his completely revamped. What if they did similar to Nurse? They keep the spirit of her, but rearrange her power? I don't know what that would potentially look like, mind, but it would in theory fix a lot of rule breaking that she does. Admittedly, as a Killer main, I'd be really sad because I like the idea of Nurse and how unique she is, but for the sake of health for the game, I wouldn't be against adjusting her. What are your thoughts? Would that be something acceptable? Could you picture what a possible adjusted/rearranged Nurse would look like?
I always thought there should be extra steps to repairing a generator like having to locate a gas canister and only one survivor can do that before others can repair it etc. And yes definitely change the nurse
Not the nurse, PLEASE, I put so much time learning.
can you please do a video on why onryo is so weak. I love her as killer but if i decide to play her then I also must be ok with a 4k escape at high mmr unless I bring the survivors to midwich and at that point it's not fun. No skill, She's too weak on big maps, nothing to help in chase and her power works against her because you will be forced to eat pallets
Been saying for years increase her speed and make teleporting fun
What if hear me out if skill was based on maximum points gained per match? Killers gain bonus points extend match times and survivors get bonus points for escaping a match faster?
You know how you get to the end not when you get there …
Matchmaking in an asymmetrical game that has so many variables (like Jay stated) is impossible to do fairly unless you make the way you match make as dynamic. I think your end game score should weigh more than kills/escapes since it’s a more accurate representation of how you play.
As Killer, I’ve had 9 hook games and the one survivor I haven’t even chased got the hatch. That game went down to two gens and they might’ve had more escapes if that one player took a hit or stunned the Killer. Hiding or just repairing while the Killer wrecks your team isn’t skilled, hands down.
The lack of transparency on MMR isn’t a good look either. Denying the community a chance to shape their experience in that way reads more elitist to me than bashing someone because of their rank. That plus how MMR seems to be weighted by kills makes for both game roles to be homogenized in play styles and perks, which breeds the toxicity that seems unique to DbD. Great vid, though, love the discussion ✊🏾
I so agree with the nurse thing. She's is holding back alot of maps, alot of perks expecially and balances that could be made. She needs a complete rework or to be removed entirely! (Killer main here)
Very interesting video! I think at the end of it all it's kind of one of those "well, what did the game mean to you" type things. In chess, a draw against a very powerful opponent can feel like a victory. Going back to DBD, when I started playing six months ago, a 1K was considered a victory to me for the first month or so. All relative I suppose. For me, the 2K is considered a draw, and I'm good with draws in games.
2k is a win for me. It prevents me from getting stressed.
They absolutely need to look at Nurse, because I think she is the main reason killer perks cant be that good/effective. One clear example is Starstruck: 75% of the killer roaster cant get value or even use it properly but, on a good Nurse? God have mercy of your soul, because shes not.
They would never get rid of nurse your right nurse is the first killer they ever added besides the base 3 killers. I remember when she came out and my mind was blown I couldn't believe they would allow such an OP thing she had 3 blinks base kit back then, I legit quit the game for a long time cause I thought they broke it 🤷♂️ I'm not surprised how 5-6 years later she's hands down still the best killer in the game.
just played for the first time in a while. dbd sucks. evil dead is better. So yeah I'm totally done with Dbd
I think if instead of gens they had multiple areas with different tasks to do sort of like among us or evil dead the game, that you needed to do to escape. Like maybe you need to find batteries, and take them to a certain item that powers a door to the next area, and if the killer downs them, the battery drops on the ground, or survivors could pass off the batteries to each other, while others loop the killer etc..
Patrick needs to be fired, he is so disconnected from the community
Damn, removing Nurse is very controversial bro. Like imagine Dbd without her? It makes me wonder. Great vid as always Jay💯
Novel incoming as usual 🤣:
I've said this since MMR was instituted: At the end of the day it's actually very simple. A win condition in an asymmetrical game such as dbd that determines your matchmaking ranking cannot be rationalized. It is the antithesis of what's best for this game.
You said it: the meta will continue to be 'kill at any cost, survive at any cost.' This translates to camping/tunneling/slugging for killers and hoping for altruism on the survivor side which more often than not occurs, which then often results in a 2k, 3k, 4k. There is zero reason for any killer to try and avoid doing these things when it's the "easiest" way to gain the one metric that's needed for an MMR bump. I've seen (and experienced myself) killers work their asses off just to get 1 kill while still pressuring gens and getting hooks. That's a win in my book. That same killer can start the next match, hook one, camp, tunnel and let's say the rest of the survivors do gens. Killer gets 1 kill, did nothing for it, I think we'd all agree that's not a win in our books. But in this game, those two situations provide the same result (same for 2k and up). I fully respect killers that play strategically compared just spawning in to tunnel and camp.
On the survivor side, it's either play for bloodpoints or play to escape and raise your MMR (not that extreme, but you get me). This means you can go into a match and literally do nothing but hide from the killer, escape through the gates and your MMR goes up. All while the other survivors are playing the match of their lives, but shorthanded and unfortunately die in match, thus lowering their MMR or getting "lucky" and escaping through the hatch…which literally does nothing to your MMR, but don't worry bc bloodpoints.
NOW, we look at the entire meta on both sides and the bigger issue exists when, god forbid, a survivor wants to pip AND escape. That altruism I spoke of before literally has to happen according to what the emblems define it as- if you want to pip. Same goes for Evader, Lightbringer and Unbroken emblems. Survivors NEED to do at least something in each emblem if they want a chance to pip-insert altruism again. They can't just let teammates die on first hook at the beginning of the game if they're getting facecamped bc points are lost for the entire team. At some point, you HAVE to go and try to get safe unhooks/pop up teammates/take protection hits, etc. which plays directly into what a killer wants when they camp/tunnel for a kill- Especially now that this means there are less survivors on gens (or none at all). That counter point of "just do gens" isn't as feasible as it may seem sometimes and those of us that have pretty good game sense understand just how frustrating this can be on both sides.
Knowing as a killer, that I can flip a switch to get a kill by camping someone if I feel I'm losing the match or one gen is left so I better tunnel this person out/camp them, etc. just isn't much fun for me and on the survivor side with this stuff happening in almost every match from teammates to killer, it's simply a chaotic mess that gets real old, real quick.
Behavior will gladly let the community fight and argue amongst themselves (ex: Killer mains vs. Survivor mains) bc it takes some pressure off of them for creating such a counterintuitive and, frankly, moronic dynamic to their game. And thinking that tweaking a bunch of perks in an asymmetrical game that has a "win condition" will help this game is so far from common sense and rational, it leaves me to believe (still) that they do not care about what the community wants if it's part of their larger framework surrounding the game, which is why they will happily act as if they're heroes when they make a "small" tweak that the community has been asking for. It's all smoke and mirrors. Bottom line is that until they act like this is an asymmetrical game, it isn't going to get better and the more tweaks, changes, updates, new chapters, killers, survivors, perks that are implemented, the less balance we will have bc they have shown us that they are not for making decisions that are in the best interest of the game time and time again.
ESPECIALLY when instituting a win condition in this game and acting like it's not the problem.
I believe they will continue to do what makes them money and unfortunately that means chuckling in our faces about the things that are needed to clean this game up (which is literally what a certain someone does in a very smug way anytime they are in a Q&A or live answering questions, giving updates).
But, I digress…😂
Gens need more challenge then just holding M1, something like that Merciless Storm perk, but easier.
To me anything less than a 3K is a loss, even if i know that if i had different killer or camped more i would have had a 3/4k i just can't consider that a win
I personally just say 1k= loss 2k= draw 3-4K= win however if I have a lot of hooks and only 2 kills it’s a win
killer and perks are choices that you make I see nothing wrong with that being reflected in your matchmaking rank, same as camping etc, since the system is measuring your output.
rng is a thing that gets brought up a lot but I think it's more often used as an excuse for why they shouldn't attribute a loss to their own performance. as for its place in a matchmaking or rank system, random events tend to even out over many matches and there's not really an indication or evidence that it's causing mmr/ranks to get warped in some way.
also i like the comparison between considering a 2k or even a 1k a win vs the killers i see who feel like they're getting hammered if they're not getting consistent 3-4k. i do agree with the seperation of what a personal victory is and quite honestly I think that's a big problem with people in how they see the mmr system. everyone around them and content creators are telling them the system is bad and the system is punishing you for not getting a kill when there's no visible ranking system and really the purpose of the system is just to make there be less one sided stomps, not actually find and display the best players.
i think looking at endgame chats of camping with vs without is pretty unfortunate that this is seen as a bad thing. a lot of work is put into ignoring or fighting criticism or complaints about camping, but taking to heart a few gg ez from a survivor who's not going to think about "what could have been". also a bit strange to dislike that a lot but some of the same attitude is spent rubbing in wins because there's an entitled survivor in my lobby telling me how to play so it's deserved or whatever. But my main concern is that I feel like we just left out a big positive that comes from playing nice where you get survivors thanking you for a good fun match and not camping. as opposed to half hearted "yeah that game was lame but ggs anyways" which seem more like politeness but they didn't really enjoy being matched with you that much.
I stopped playing dbd seriously after realizing that when i play surv..i get pissed with killers who tunnel and camp, but when I play killer…in many times I had to resort to tunnel at least one surv to stand a chance. I just dont want to be a hypocrite
🍻
I agree. There would have to be a huge adjustment for survivors to make it harder for them to do gens, or do other objectives. The fact that tunneling and camping doesn't have a negative effect for the killer is fine. Because the game is very unbalanced in the survivors side for the most part. It's definitely not okay that a survivor and be "graded" poorly because he dies at the end, and the other survivors basically reap the reward for that 1 survivor to play well.
I honestly think if the devs would just accept their losses on some aspects of the game, snd begin to revamp the concept of the game, the players would gravitate to it again. For example:
Lose the Nurse like you said
Remove DH altogether
Create new ways to earn blood points
Change all the gens to where only 2 at most can work on a gen
Add new modes (salary cap mode where you can't run everyone meta perk. Every perk has a point value, and you can't exceed your total point value)
And there are a hundred adjustments to perks they can do balance it more
Lower the RNG in the maps, killers get screwed more often than not with the randomness of things.
DBD really does need some devs that are willing to cut their losses on some ideas they implemented and is ruining the game
the game is too simplistic objective wise for survivors to not do anything else but gens, nurse is really the only killer that can most effectively 12 hook in a match cause she can apply pressure quick enough to where that is possible even then gens can still go fast and you still may have to tunnel one person out or just slug the entire team. but basically any other killer its a given that you will have to tunnel or camp against an efficient team.
I have to disagree with you on the 2k bit.
Win conditions should be 0-1 loss, 2 draw, 3 – 4 win. Its that straight forward.
Now I will agree that sometimes a 2k can feel like a win, or feel like a loss, but the results are the results.
Lets use Rocky as an example, he lost to Apollo in that first match, but it felt like a win and he was happy with the result. Even Apollo said "man I won but I didnt beat him." What something feels like can alter our perception of the result, but the result is the result.
I know I used a work of fictiin to illistrate my point but who doesnt live Rocky 🙂
Everything else I agree with though 🙂
If they got rid of my fave killer I would delete this game so fast.
I would be totally fine if Nurse got deleted from the game forever. Nobody ever has fun going against a good nurse. Shes one of the oldest killers in the game but has almost no counterplay besides run dead hard, break line of sight and hope she misses her blink or run Boon shadowstep which only helps on indoor maps.
A win for me is Simple if u get 6 hook stages it’s a win that is = to 2 survivors gone which is what would raise r mmr
So if I get 6 hooks stages it’s a win if it’s a swf to balance it out I say 5 hooks is a win
Doing it this way makes u not always half to worry about killing people and ect and it’s just less stressful
What they should do is change the adept stipulations. Either go vack and make killer adepts easier again or make survivor adepts more difficult.
It kinda sucks that you need a double pip for killer adept on top of only using the 3 unique perks while as survivor all you need is your 3 unique perks and survive the trial.
That's nowhere near ballanced.
I think 2K is a draw regardless, 1 vs 4, 2 escape, has to be a draw. 3K is a win as it normally means 1 escaped via hatch, 4K is easily a W. Playing well is hard to measure but the Kills vs Escapes is easily recognisable. I agree with your points but I feel they are more on the lines of a "Moral Victory" than an actual win if you get a 2K with GF etc.
I want gens to be changed but it would be really hard to implement a new system and you would have to change skill check perks into something else. I think some maps should be redesigned and some killers need to be redesigned. Doc is a perfect example. His power has the potential to be oppressive but it’s not and against a 4-man of really good survivors you’ll be destroyed. I do think SWFs need to be regulated in someway. I was in a 4-man last night and I felt like we had 3 out 50-60% of the time. We weren’t the best survivors in the world. If we were an effective team we would destroy every killer we played. I think the items/perks/offerings should be limited when in a 4-man.
When I see people complain about camping/tunneling I say "Welcome to DBD 2022". The devs have made it this way, not intentionally I am sure but by painting themselves into a corner no doubt. MMR forces you to play a certain way at higher levels. It sucks and that is why the numbers have been dropping so drastically.
You can get 10 hooks and still "only" get a 2k. 10 hooks are great. and that's certainly not a draw. i played against an artist today and she had 10 hooks and a 2k. i escaped – barely, but she did very well, better than anyone of us and she didnt tunnel or camp. so even though i escaped, i guess it was actually the artist who won the match.
i agree that nurse should be removed, maybe not the character entirely, but she shouldnt be able to ignore all gameplay, it feels cheap that going against a nurse drastically feels different and worse than any other killer. it feels like a completely different game, and i know some people like that, it's undeniable that when you become good and capable at the nurse, most survivors will not stand a chance against you. like i said, i wouldnt want the character, the nurse, to be completely deleted, maybe just a power overhaul to make it so she cant phase through solid objects. maybe speed her up to compensate for the fact she doesnt break the game anymore, idk. good video as always jay, love the work you put in man.
About Nurse being removed: I don't think she needs to be removed, just seriously tweaked. I am talking about general porting distance reduced, (partially) blinding her during teleport, decrease lunge distance after porting, nerf add ons or a combination out of those