Read more Dead by Daylight ➜ https://deadbydaylight.mgn.gg
http://www.twitch.tv/ScottJund
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Read more Dead by Daylight ➜ https://deadbydaylight.mgn.gg
http://www.twitch.tv/ScottJund
https://discord.gg/TheBreaderhood
source
I've always had a 'competitive selfless survivor' play style, and got rank 1 consistently pre MMR. It's only now that I realize how many times I don't escape and how heavily I relied on the old BP rank system to play with people at my skill level. I used to play against very notable killers, now all I see are bully survivor squads picking on new killers for YT content.
BHVR: We've heard your complaints so we've now disabled all selfless actions.
This is my problem too. I’m surprised Ohtofu couldn’t see this when he made his video defending mmr system. Most of DBD fun matches are full risk plays and dying in the process. But this doesn’t mean we should play against baby killers for having fun. It also gets REALLY boring when the killer is a baby.
You just don’t get it Scott, even if you loop the killer for 72 hours straight without being hit, finish all the gens yourself, work a full time job while playing DBD, and babysit your teammates’ children for them the whole time, if you get downed and face camped and killed at the end of it all, it wasn’t really a skilled play. You see, dbd is like hockey… /s
You know what system rewarded such playstyles as yours? What system granted you advancement depending on what you contributed to the team AND whether or not you escaped?
The Emblem System. I know, crazy how they thought MMR was better than this.
Obviously it wasn't perfect either, but it was A LOT better.
i just echoe this video 100% because i am at the exact same loop
Im addiced to not playing dbd at all, and i have a great time doing it
You are making incorrect comparisons. The only game DBD can be compared to is hockey. Didn't you hear Patrick 😌
Nice I wasn't actually aware they were considering team based mmr. I honestly think that will solve alot of issues, there is a reason why all other games use it, its because its been calculated to be the best mmr system. Its not perfect of course since you can carry people, but its standard for a reason. However, they also probably have to fix up some of their numbers and whatnot, I believe standard mmr systems have modifiers based on win and loss streaks and possibly opponent mmr and stuff like that.
Im constantly in the loop of getting face camped and tunneled for knowing how to loop and games where my teammates go down extremely fast so the games already over. Just feels like there's no point in playing anymore if this is how my matches are all the time.
imagine if this was intended: your reward for being selfless is easier matches, being able to bully more and more.
^ I wouldn't be surprised if behavior claimed that at some point or smth, cuz they also claimed a bunch of other very questionable stuff when talking about MMR
The thing is: It doesn't matter if MMR is based on a 4v1 or a 1v1v1v1v1 because we still don't know reliable metrics for skill in DBD. You could have a playerbase of two million players and a great and fast matchmaking, if your SBMM system does not hold up to the SB in its name, why even try to make it team-based. And as Scott (and we all) finally found out: even if SBMM is perfect, the playerbase is too small to make the system work properly. BHVR sticks with SBMM because of sunken cost fallacy and are unlikely to change it. Matchmaking will stay broken, in fact it always has been broken. Now there's just a fancy system name behind it instead of the old rank 20-1 system.
Ive been playing a lot less because I’m stuck in the same loop.
I was addicted to a loop of getting shitted on by my team mates
I feel like it’s a problem but also not. Yeah killers are getting bullied, but an altruistic team gives kills to the killer. I typically play for BPs and feel satisfied when I genuinely do a little bit of everything. Like if I’m the last survivor with max boldness, I’m not waisting my time doing a chase when I know I won’t survive and not getting BP’s since I maxed out already.
It's so awesome that BHVR were just like "yeah MMR is only affected by escaping and we have no intention of factoring any aspect of gameplay into it so feel free to kill yourself on hook if you want to bully bad killers"
Well said!
So I've been kinda thinking about it and..
Wouldn't it be if you had high mmr you'd go against just as many plebs who aren't good and get out most of their games anyway; and if you lose wouldn't you face more good players who play well and die?
And this video sheds light on that theory. I hadn't played for quite a while and hopped on the other day to a team of very well coordinated survivors and got my ass kicked.
I'm having the worst team mates recently because of the same thing
This isn't real problem. No match will be a perfect 1:1 skill match or balance. You aren't torturing killers. If anything, they are learning when to break chase. But ultimately, I think this is an overstatement of your individual impact on a match. You still die at the end.
Not sure if you saw but Hybridpanda's most recent shrinewatch shows a video of Patrick himself saying on a dev stream "we tried SBMM based solely on kills and escapes, it was so bad it would never make it to live." At which point Notqueen reiterated "so we are saying again that is NOT how SBMM is measured."
Oof, sorry Scott. You offered a piece of criticism, which, you should know, is not allowed in this community. I'm going to have to revoke your twitch shirt privileges now.
Played killer for the first time in a couple months last night and yeah. I have maybe 400 hours and play on Switch so never been super successful to begin with but literally every match was red/gold rank 2 man teams and even with a dc 30 seconds into a match I got looped for 5 gens and tbagged/clicked at the end. Bet they felt real big when they say my little gray emblem 😂😂😂 the BM like they really got me !!!! I mean great practice for me I guess but man it was tiring.
I know how to mindgame red stain at loops and force a 3gen and the like so it's not that I rely on 0 skill survivors but I really was hopelessly outclassed and getting chain looped hard by one red rank survivor for probably 10 minutes which isn't fun.
I can't get stuck in those loops because I don't play DBD anymore 🙂
when i play killer theres usually that one flashlight clicking teabagging guy who wants to be chased from a mile away , instantly going to that killer shack into TL into Cowtree 3 minute loop without any generator nearby
i scare him and turn around to keep defending generators
at the endgame chat his teammate will call me tunnelling
but understand my perspective that them doing generators are more of a threat to finish the game against me then said guy
said guy will call me bad and afraight to 1v1 him not relate that its strategically bad for me to run after him when he is playing it safe without putting up pressure
and feel like his teammates were feeding noobs
I got vhs key and looking forward to playing it. Why i play killer at night
The negative is already pointless. If you die for your team they already get the boost. But you don't. It only can make it better
You are for a good reason in this loop.
I think it would have been better if they increased or decreased your MMR based on how many Survivor escapes that trial and not just yourself, It's still not great but It's better than JUST YOURSELF escaping
Wait, I don't want to be rude but isn't Scott the same person who said that killers who complain about high MMR should play less sweaty? How is this any different, couldn't he just play sweater and ditch his teammate?
Sometimes when I lose, I feel like my teams are the only players that get bad and I get actually decent killers
That was my issue before I stopped playing. I was always the one to take on chases and go for saves in endgame, usually resulting in my death. I wasn’t the best at the game but I also wasn’t the worst either and it just ended up being really boring to play with bad teammates and killers and like you said, teammates being afraid to save and causing MMR to go down more. It was mostly the same for killer, where I would lose games because I go for hooks instead of kills, causing me to have less enjoyable games and because most survivors who prefer chases and altruism that usually leads to a death are in lower MMR because of this issue it made killer almost impossible to have a fair enjoyable game.
so in short: skill != surviving
I've been experiencing this same type of problem and am finding myself spending more time being a killer than a survivor. Altruism has been ingrained and used to be rewarded in this game, instead of now being punished.
The fact they see a average game as two kills and two escapes, yet enlist a system that says “But since those survivors died, regardless of other variables, they’re bad.” Is fucking stupid.
DBD is so centered around looping that it feels like every aspect of it is a loop one way or another
Honestly I think they should just go back to ranks at this point, at least that was based on what you actually did in the match somewhat. And they should tie it to bloodpoints and uncap them so that if you run the killer the whole match you have really high boldness and don't depip. This wouldn't take as much work as they did to implement MMR, they already have the baseline architecture.
in the devs mind set your a bad player cuz you dont escape it just goes to tell you how stupid the devs really are
happens to me a ton in my killer games, I get bullied for 4 gens, get a hook, then feel useless committing to another chase, so I proxy camp and maybe I get 1 kill, or they konga line out the map
I've been bashing my head against the solo survivor experience for the past few days. That's already often an exercise in masochism. MMR has made it worse for me, knowing that the "optimal play" in the system BHVR has set up is to play as selfishly as possible. Avoid hooks, because who knows if you're actually going to get rescued or not, avoid chases, and just do gens (which are boring). Opening the exit gate regardless if people are safe and getting out yourself is a "skilled play" according to the developers. It sucks that the only way out of the land of self-caring claudettes and crouch everywhere megs is to play like a scumbag. I've played a lot of games with matchmaking systems, but I don't think anything has topped the mess this MMR system is in current state.
4:45 as a Dota player, I appreciate the analogy
I would like to see a mmr system that counts if you personally survive and how many others survived. For example you would get 10 points for surviving and 5 points for every survivor that survived. So if everyone survived you would get 10 + 20 points. Or something like that.
And as a side point, as someone who has to endure playing Overwatch because of friends, I personally much rather get screwed over by the matchmaking than other people intentionally making the game horrible for others. In ow right now there is at least 1 smurf account every comp match. That makes the game extremely unfun to play. While yes getting matched against players out of you skill level in DBD can be very annoying, the people against you in most games dont know your skill level at the start and come prepared to bully you just because they know how much "worse" you are. A bully squad can end up against a baby myers with 1 perk or a god blight with the nastiest addons and perks. Imagine how much worse it would be if everyone could see each others mmr. A non toxic semi high mmr survivor would be tempted to "bully" or meme a low rank killer if they saw at the lobby screen, how much lower the other person is.
Sacrificing yourself so your teammate lives while you die when you know how the mmr system works is sandbagging
Sae problem. I can literally loop killers because I always play altruistic…. And that’s because I usually die first trying to go for a save. If I go against decent killers I won’t even last 20 seconds in chase
I think this is happening to me. I am by no means an amazing player, but I go for lots of risky plays and die a lot because I don’t care as much about surviving as I do having fun. And then I end up going against baby killers with one perk, running them for 5 gens and dying on first hook watching my teammates crouch around the map. It’s kind of a pain.
Yeah im in the exact same loop. I play the same way you do, I will sacrifice myself so the team gets out, Even on deathhook, I will go and tank NOED hits, or anything else if it means the rest can escape. yeah my mmr is down the drain, the teammates I play with are all scared and don't know how to play. This makes me think MMR just doesn't work. Im not getting rewarded for my skillfull plays, I'm being punished for being good and being altruistic.