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I was bombarded by a lot of the bad side of otzdarvas community so at times I was addressing them just so you understand why I mention him. Because this wasn’t about any 1 person it was about hooks vs kills.
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Guys, this video is showing what going for kills over hooks looks like. I had 2 survivors in the basement. I was huntress. I knew 100% they could not be saved as I had mouse 2 into mouse 1 combo. Because I knew this and didn't care for hooks. I knew I would get 2 kills before the last gens were done thus giving me minimum of a 3k. This isn't about otz, he's just another human of this planet he isn't this special almighty thing to me, just a normal guy playing a game just like me. This wasn't about him, this is about hooks over kills promotes a healthier gameplay. Reading the comments about oh, but otz this and otz that, is fucking melting my brain lol
It's not really their fault that they listen to Otz and take his word as gospel despite maybe not fully understanding what he meant as he's way better and someone that people who like him look up to. It's the devs fault for making a wishy washy win condition that even they aren't certain about. Even the piping system apparently is all over the place and they've admired that too. In any other game the win condition is concrete and easy to identify but not in dbd, so people should focus their energy on the devs rather than infighting in the community.
This community is so toxic lol all the unwritten rules is just insane. Just play the way you like to play. Face camping is the one exception in my book. Thats just annoying
as a mediocre survivor and killer you speak for the working man. longer games = more fun for me at least
You should just direct the community to go after the devs on this issue to have them make up their minds on what classifies as a win for killer and survivor and then fix the emblem system/ranking system to match that.
Tru3 address cancel culture in this video
I like how TrU3 gets so distracted by the conversation he's checking the exit gates instead of looking for hatch. If you're going for kills you gotta sweat that 4k. Haha.
Lmao seems like such a bitter old man complaining about people walking on his grass, enjoy your less than 400k subscribers
I don't understand why people argue with Tru3 in his chat. No one wants a face camping noed player. Chasing survivors, and hooking each survivor three times, and possibly getting a 4k. Is way more skillful as killer than one hooking all 4 in the basement, or slugging everyone at the beginning of the game. Insidious, and noed are unhealthy perks for the game. Gen speed needs to be addressed. And some loops need to be better designed for both sides.But no matter what the devs do, I do not think it's possible to balance an asymmetrical horror game like DBD. Good content, and analysis as always Tru3. Love ya man!
My problem with this argument is that one side is generalizing the other side for the actions of a few, i.e PFH(playing for hooks) are assuming PFK( playing for kills) are all either slugging into 1 hooks or camping into tunneling, when in reality that not how every PFK player plays the game, hell id say most play like tru3 but where tru3 would find a win they would view it as a lost.
Example: tru3 and Otz both play 2 separate matches of DBD where both of them get 10 individual hooks and end both games with 2Ks. Id assume in this scenario tru3 would view this as a win if he pips as well (correct me if im wrong here), where as Otz would view it as a lost/draw cause he let 2 people go.
Both did what tru3 would view as the objective but where as one side sees a lost the other sees a win, but neither are heavily using any of the unhealthy tactics that some PFK players would use that are bad for the game.
So at the end of the day instead of saying PFKs are making the game unhealthy, we should directly address the specific behaviors that are being perpetrated by a subset of said community instead of generalizing them all.
To be honest, the dialogue from Scott Jund and Otzdarva has been healthy in the sense that they are just being open and honest about their thoughts regarding hooks versus kills. I lean more towards Scott’s view, roughly speaking, going for hooks over kills is a noble thing to do, but your objective is to kill the survivors and the devs took 3 months to change a UI that we never even asked for, what makes you think they are going to balance the game around hooks? Lol. Myself, personally, did prefer when a killer would try to 3 hook everyone, it did seem to make for better gameplay most of the time, but I can’t expect killers to play in a way that essentially benefits the survivors!
Otz already proved you wrong please watch his video.
I feel like you're being a bit extreme over the debate. You're only looking at the extreme side of the kills argument. OBVIOUSLY tunnelling and camping is something we should disincentivise our players to do. But at the same time, if we see overly altruistic survivors running directly towards the hook when you're still in the direct vicinity and going for an unsafe hook, we shouldn't punish them for that because it's not 'skillful' or 'interesting' gameplay? At some point, you can't babysit terrible survivors. Some killers, like Myers or Oni actively ENCOURAGE you to slug. So if I'm playing them, I should go directly against my perogative for the sake of 'skillful' gameplay? I feel like there should be a good balance between going for hooks and going for kills. And a majority of the time, whether I'm survivor or killer, I see at least 9 hooks a game unless you run into a toxic player now and again.
if you don't have fun you lose
I love otz but his fanboys are toxic garbage.
This video is so cringe. Your typical content is so good, so I'm disappointed at the passive aggressiveness in this one. If Otz is getting under your skin, I hope you address his video with logic. If you don't care what Otz says, then I hope you move on and your videos return to the usual high quality.
Everyone play Michael there problem solved
Kills are your objective, but to get kills you need hooks. More hooks= more gameplay from both sides. Remember that your goal as a killer is to stop survivors from escaping.
Hooks are healthier but the problem is that the game is survivor sided. A killer against a survivor team of equal skill has no chance. If tru went against 4 survivors as good as he is at survivor, on or off comms, it would be a REALLY hard game. so most killers have to go for slugging and tunneling.
Nah. Because I’d rather have fun in chases getting hooks rather than slugging and 1 hooking everyone. Makes it fun for survivor and killer alike
Lol when otz proves u wrong 😌
I've played many fighting games and multiplayer games and never have I ever seen people complain on how to win only in DBD.
I see where both tru3 and OTZ are coming from but unforntunelty neither side gets rewarded by the type of playstyle due to how this game is designed If you play the way tru3 wants the game to be played then you will get a 2k at best because of how broken gens are and if you play the way otz wants to play sure you will get your kills but the game itself says brutal killer and by DBD standards a 2k and a brutal killer means draw game which is why ppl are running in circles on defining what a win is. Not to mention killers like oni and twins will get hurt big time if you do manage to make the game hook based which is why this game is beyond saving when it comes to this whole hook vs kills debate they need to flip the whole game around in order to do so and I highly doubt it considering the fact that the UI was a problem and took them a long time to mess with.
Ps. Keep up the amazing content love you both tru3/otz
Whining at every little thing isnt healthy for the game either! ^-^ (and let the hate comments ensue!)
dude if tru3 specified camping /tunneling they would literally agree with eachother?
Stop the hate guys come on don’t leave it in the comments section
Mate, kills != Camping, there is no measure for wins in this game, the only thing to measure it is ranks
He has a point.
If getting hooks would be more rewarding for killers there wouldn't be that much tunneling or camping.
I think true already made a video few years ago where he talked about point system that prevented camping or punished it more
Camping
Tunnling off hook is y I only play custom I search for a game for 5-10 min as survivor just to get tunnled lol
The thing is go for kills YES but play fair at the same time don’t camp the basement then get a 4K and pretend that’s how everyone who says go for kills play like I GO for kills YES but I still play fair and try to make the game enjoyable for both sides ie no campaign tunnel slug etc I just see kills as win
I thinks hooks cause not only will you get more points with 12h-4k vs 4h-4k it’s also more fair and fun, survivors play for fun and the looping aspect so when you try to 1-2 hook and just get the kill the 1st hook then the survivors are getting 1 chase which isn’t fun for either side vs 3+ chases to almost each survivor. Any ways that’s my opinion lmk what you think🤔
Not sure what's happening but I can't access your channel right now? I can access your vids manually when I look you up but I can't access your actual channel, it just comes up blank. I'm not having this prob with anyone else in my subs.
True just takes this old quite dead game way too serious still. At the end of the day people are gonna camp and tunnel if they're about to lose with if they're not hooking or killing anyone because the game design allows it and they're not good enough to not have to play like that. And there's no incentives whatsoever to do anything in the game, it's all just about rank and BP is what you're getting and that shit really doesn't even provide motivation. People care more about winning and losing/ getting kills/escaping most don't care about anything else since you get nothing for actually being good
going for kills it's the efficent way and if you wanna be efficent u just camp,tunnel,slug doing 12 hooks is way more fun for both sides and you can actually learn something
I feel like behavior needs to revamp the scoring system or at least the end game screen. Its 4 survivors vs killer, and I feel like the survivors should have some kind of group "hope" score while the killer has a "despair" score and whoever's score is larger is shown to be the winner of the match.
You wouldn't even need to change much, just make it an average of the group of survivors.
Set up like this, it gives a clear winner or loser and things aren't just "well did you get X amount of hooks" or "did you live".
Its very strange because on paper the objective for the game don't really match up with the presentation.
Survivor isn't necessarily to escape, its to do objectives / win chases to get a high score and pip, and escaping is the largest score increase.
Killer isn't really to Kill all four survivors, its to get a high enough score to pip by chasing, breaking palettes, and getting hooks and killing is the highest.
Its the main reason why you can "win" on either side and still depip and I think behavior really needs to change the games presentation to match.
Keep in mind that the person in chat saying "do kills over hooks" are the kind of people that the devs are catering to which is ruining the game.
If we are going to go by kills being a win, then Nurse needs a buff and Freddy needs to be nerfed going by there "victory" stats. If we go by the emblem (which is the defacto ranking system atm) system then the Legion is the best killer in the game bar none.
The pip/emblem system is what needs to be looked at for the killer side. Like you said 4 kills 4 hooks? Loss technically going by the emblem system. 8 hooks and no kills? Also a loss. More or less you need golds in all categories to single pip and therefore "win". They even went by the kills system with the victory cube back in the day and killers tunneled the shit out of people and that system was abandoned and replaced with this new system.
It's not just kills and hooks. It's also chases and making sure the gens take as long for the survivors to complete as possible (which without old ruin is now imfuckingpossible). How fast are the chases happening? What about instant down killers that skip a whole health state? They actually are crippling themselves by cutting their total points for said emblems in half. If you injure a survivor and they heal before you can hook them you lose that point while they are progressing towards a pip in their system.
I think the whole system needs to be redone for killers to give them an ingame "win" condition while adding other methods for Killers to swing the game in their favor. I mean in lore terms we are supposed to drain the survivors of hope aren't we? Why doesn't kicking gens contribute towards gate keeper? Why doesn't breaking pallets contribute towards malicious? What's the point of an MMR system when the system used to judge whether you win or lose is ignored/not even understood? I mean they even added a hook counter to killers screens to show how many hooks in total you have meaning they want you to hook more people and not tunnel to let people play more.
What we need is platforms such as you and Otz to show just how dumb the killer's "win" criteria is and push it infront of the devs saying, "This system is garbage and needs to be looked at and changed to something that promotes killers for doing as many aspects as they can make input in. Kicking gens, breaking pallets etc. and incorporate that into a clear and defined system that is easy to understand and show you won. How you got that win and make it easy to understand so we can start striving towards that type of balance."
As an extremely intelligent person, watching this so called drama, I came to the conclusion that we have a case of misunderstanding here.
Not everyone going for kills is going out of his way (by slugging, camping or tunneling) to achieve his goal/win.
Not everyone going for hooks is going out of his way (by avoiding, afk-ing or babysitting) to achieve his win/goal.
But some do.
I believe both Tru3 and Otz are satisfied with a 9-10 Hooks 3-4K – but where Otz is searching the challenge in getting kills, Tru3 had his counting hooks thing in a few videos; while both pretty much agree a 4k or a Hatch-3k is a de facto win.
Now Tru3 shares the sentiment that we should stray from the thought we NEED to get kills no matter what, and that we should not aim for superficial "win an X amount"-challenges in this game, where the term "winning" is debatable. You can have games with 4 Kills and 5 players not having fun, which is a loss for everyone.
And Otz shares the point that in order to challenge yourself or entertain an audience with challenges, you'll need to sacrifice certain aspects of the gameplay loop in order to achieve a goal. Preferably a clear goal that leaves little to chance, like a "merciless" rating for example. Achieving that goal is his win.
Both arguments oppose eachother similar to the casual vs. tryhard gaming argument; both are not wrong.
Oh my god, this ridiculous war the fanboys made out of opinions is just crazy. No wonder Tru3 is just getting stressed out because he is always pointed out as the big bad guy. It's exactly like he has said many times, he can't say out his opinions or he just gets hated on because haters gotta hate. (I'm a fan of both Tru3 and Otz)
(I won't be surprised if someone calls me Tru3 fanboy now, and i can't bother to care if someone does.)
Idk why Tru3 is being so cowardly. He's been throwing little jabs at Otz for awhile now… I've known it, I'm sure others have noticed it and now that Otz himself has noticed it and literally provided a clip of it (there are plenty more), Tru3 is hiding his true feelings behind "Otz's toxic fanbase". It's funny to me that people in the comments are acting like Tru3 hasn't been referring to Otz this whole time. The fact is that he has a condescending attitude toward the slugging playstyle, making up an imaginary rulebook that killers should adhere to based on the opinion that his way of playing the game is more skillful- or as he puts it now- "more healthy". Then he's using an outcome from ONE RANDOM GAME as anecdotal evidence that proves his point after Otz showed data from games where he played every killer and supported a thorough counter argument.
Person 1: So the name of the role you play is killer correct?
True: Yes it is
Person 1: So it makes sense that as the Killer you're suppose to go for kills correct?
True: Makes sense to me!
Person 1: So then they should just go for kills
True: THATS NOT HOW IT WORKS
I mean, I hate to say this as both a fan of Otz and you Tru, but this game really doesn't show off your point nor does it show off Otz's. You're just kinda hanging out there and I agree the game needs to become healthier but I'm pretty sure this really just you forcing kills. Not camping, but forcing kills to try and make a argument.
I feel like a bunch of people are just trying to get otz and true to start fighting between each other.
It's not really on the community to solve this.
To mend this confusion, the devs must address a simple question: What is the Killer's main objective?
The dev's own emblem and point system rewards hooks, and attempt to punish face camping and slugging. Yet, the devs only ever talk about kill counts and kill ratios, and never hook counts. It is understandable for a community to be splintered when the devs are sending completely contradictory messages.
You cannot debate anything without some one calling you mad for defending a point but how dare you point out some 1 else for doing something and people will jump on you. Example the other day in GW2 i asked a healer why they werent healing? i was immidately told to shut the fuck up and was being a whiny bitch apperently. 1 question and people will rip you apart.
You responded to me while you were streaming but I don't think you understood what I was trying to say because of all the comments you had to read so I just wanted to clarify. I agree with you that content creators influence the community. I do not necessarily agree that these win compilations videos are responsible for the community prioritizing kills over hooks. Players like yourself, otz, Scott, no0b3, etc are not representative of the average dbd players. You guys have 5000 + hours in the game while the majority of players have 500-1500. I don't watch otz play killer and just assume thats how killer should be played. I don't watch no0b3 get chased for 5 gens and just assume thats what playing survivor should be like. I understand that these are people who are are 1. In the top 5% of players for the game and 2. Are content creators who are just trying to be entertaining. If someone doesn't understand that than it is on them not the content creator. They never promote that as being the proper way for the game to be played either. What counts as a win for me is having fun and pipping. The game should be balanced around 2ks and 2 escapes, with occasional 3ks and 3 escapes. 4ks and 4 escapes should be incredibly rare. Maps favoured to one side, horrible totem spawns, and a lack of a proper matchmaking system so people are going up against players their skill level is what ruins the game a lot of the time.
TrU3Ta1ent
and Otz play together will be fun
I’m confused. There seems to be 2 different debates going on. There’s the ‘win condition’ debate and the gameplay debate.
I understand that there’s many things to consider to define ‘winning’ the game as a killer which is the current heated argument.
However, gameplay wise, am I wrong to assume most players would agree that a mobile and active killer provides for variety and healthy matches rather than a camping killer?
Ps. Im a big fan of both streamers. I’m just trying to wrap my head around all this hehe.. ^_^
It literally just depends on what you see as winning, there's really no right or wrong. It just comes down to if you believe getting more hooks is considered winning or just killing survivors and not caring about the # of hooks