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tl;dr: I think it barely teeters on acceptable strength while being very strong. Anti-camping mechanics have weakened it’s effect on camping and survivors tend to play badly against it most of the time.
http://www.twitch.tv/ScottJund
source
The anti-camp feature didn't really fix anything. Camping is as prevalent now, if not more so, because killers seem to feel like they have more of a green light to proximity camp now because of the feature.
STBFL stacks are fine, what needs change is the cooldown per stack. like, make it 4% per stack instead of 5% (down from 40% to 32% at 8). This way u still need to grind them till 8
Before even watching the video, just reading the title.. being it was a killer perk and not a survivor one, I knew he was gonna say "I think it's ok". lmao.
STBFL is the one of the few perks that makes playing M1 killer somewhat viable. You have to build it up by actually hitting the survivor. Survivors literally want every good killer perk nerfed into the ground. Its why no one wants to play killer anymore.
Going straight? Yeah….survivor mains are gonna have a realllllll problem with that one….
"Just run in a straight line forehead". Also this latest patch TOTALLY killed camping and made it impossible! Lmao
Once they nerf this perk im done with killer it's by far my favorite perk in the game and it's not even close the only thing more powerful that this perk in my games is altruism
The most boring part of STBFL is that killers either just ignore the obsession and just literally refuse to hit them just to save stacks or use their powers to prevent stack loss. So what are you even supposed to do… They get stacks by hitting others and if they are against you, they will just special attack you and literally nothing will change. Just make it have less stacks and just make it lose stacks for injuring the obsession by any means. Solo q is miserable like almost every game because ppl just sit on gens and never help each other.
Base kit STBFL
Killer isn't fun
Considering there's a clear counter play (obsession body blocks) and the killers that benefit the most are M1 killers that are getting power crept out of the game, I see no problem with stbfl.
Honestly, if they nerf it before mft, it'll be the final straw for me. I'll leave this game for good.
Whenever i play survivor i dont even notice it. When i play killer i usually play chase heavy builds with zero gen slowdown. I more or less try to end chases quick and ping pong between survivors and rack up hooks. I also play fairly causually though instead of trying to sweat my ass off as killer.
I guess the gripe is that the biggest counter to stbfl is the obsession abusing the fact that the killer doesn't want to chase them and become active around the map, not being afraid of hook trades or body blocks as the killer would waste his stacks, but in solo queue, if you have a baby obsession who actively hides from the killer despite having 0 downs, the stbfl killer can easily get 8 stacks and just steamroll the game.
the problem with STBFL is typically the obsession is a Distortion/Calm Spirit andy who doesn't eat stacks but somehow also doesn't do gens while everyone else is getting chewed up by the perk.
Here's my fix:
4% CD per token instead of 5
10 maximum tokens
Get 1 if you injure non obsession with m1. Get 2 if you down or deep wound non obsession with m1. (Rewards non hit and run play style. (Punishes aggressive use of endurance for survivors.)
Lose 3 if you injure the obsession with m1. Lose 2 if you down the obsession with m1. Lose 1 if you deep wound the obsession with m1. (Switching to the blocking obsession isn't as punishing. Aggressive use of endurance on obsession less effective.)
Lose 1 and gain 0 if you injure, deep wound, or down a survivor with 18 meters of a hook by any means. Max stack loss is 3 if obsession. (Lightly punishes proxy camp, but not so heavily in case the survivor intentionally brings the killer to the hook.)
Lose 2 and gain 0 if you inflict deep wound on a survivor with the BT status by any means. Max stack loss is 3 if obsession. (Punishes tunneling)
Lose 2 and gain 0 if you injure, deep wound, or down a survivor by any means who unhooked a survivor while the survivor while they unhooked has the BT status. Max stack loss is 3 if obsession. (Punishes returning to unhook or proxy camp)
This makes the skill pretty damn wordy, but has so many benefits. The skill still has the same potential power. More rewarding for killers who commit to chases and don't play hit and run. Makes it easier to gain stacks but harder to stay at max stacks. Makes it easier to maintain some stacks. Doesn't punish the killer as much for hitting/downing an obnoxious blocking obsession. Punishes the killer for sticking around hooks and chasing unhooks. Gives survivors a chance to unhook late if the obsession can't or won't help for whatever reason.
Curious to see what people think of this.
Currently, I think Save is a bit of a necessary evil with how strong maps and hold W can be, and how survivors can spam endurance perks and take a ton of hits (I especially like that Save means that survivors can't just do things in the killer's face and get away with it, you have to actually be scared of the killer if they have Save).
It's less the perk itself being a problem, and more that tunneling and camping are difficult strategies to play around and Save just so happens to help with those strategies (but so does Coup de Grace, Endfury, ect, since they also make chases shorter). A nice band-aid would be not gaining stacks if a survivor has endurance, to discourage tunneling off hook and profiting off it in terms of stonks.
I mostly just don't want to see Save get nerfed because it would make Slinger much weaker, and I'm kinda sick of having my main bounce between A tier and D tier lol
I'll trade you can nerf stbfl if you nerf survivor haste stacking or maybe off the record
Stbfl plus haste on hit perk might be too strong but that’s two perks so idk I really think it should be alittle more base kit and then nerfed honestly but that’s just me
"Yay! Demo doggo!"
Save the best for last build for the 100th time in a row
"Yay! Demo doggo!"
Save the best for last build for the 100th time in a row
Y’all really complaining about stbfl? Wow y’all ruined this game for me! I’m done
You could just let it not apply to the person who gets off the hook
Actually good take. The perk isnt a problem. The main problem is buckle up ftp combo and mft
The biggest L take you've ever had. That perk might be the most ever tuned perk in the game. An extremely strong perk that is only stronger against solo queue lobbies and lower skill players who don't know the extremely limited counterplay to the perk. It also encourages tunneling because when I killer is pressuring an unhook and sees the obsession, they will always just take the bt of the unhooked and attempt to rehook them instead of losing stacks on the unhooking obsession. Happens alllll the time.
Yes. its strong
I think it's balanced but I'm still fine with the idea of reducing the maximum tokens to 6, since that's how the perk was meant to be before it was affected by the base cooldown update.
I feel like its strength is just something to do with its clunky mechanics and really highlighting the SWF/Solo Queue disparity. It's easy to earn a stack, M1 a survivor. It's hard to coordinate forcing the killer to lose stacks, especially in Solo Queue. Shaving it down to pre-6.0 might be a good move, though perhaps you could alternatively reduce the cooldown per stack to be 4% and keep the 8 tokens. This would keep the max cooldown approximately the same (32% for 8 tokens vs. 30% for 6) but wouldn't also provide a subsequent sidegrade of making it easier to reach the cap.
A point of contention..? Where? I've never seen this mentioned on reddit or the official forums. Hell even Lightborn gets argued about on reddit as a meme but this perk is never brought up.
Main survivors: Abusive endurance stats are fine, Made for This is fine, gen boost speed perks are fine, Save the Bast for Last is soooooo OP.
I wonder why everyone and their grandma use sbtfl on every killer
I just went against a pyramid, wesker and nemesis with it, dude, pyramid
Why don't you do a video on how cracked 4 man groups are or bully squads or even MFT, like you say you speak from a killers perspective, but with the anti camping rule, now STBFL, like … what else can you do to make it more Survivor based. You ain't no killer main because if you were you'd know the struggle. the Devs are clearly in favour of Survivors these days, we haven't even gotten any new base kits whilst the Survs have had built in borrowed time and now built in Deliverance, Killers aint allowed no meta perks, we actually have to be creative with it and half of our perks break mid game, Corrupt, literally breaks after the first down, then we are playing with 3 perks, same with Ruin, you've nerfed noed into the ground so the survivors can see it, how is it that when the Killers finally have a edge to combat the already crazy toxic survivors we get nerfed deeper than the ocean floor but the moment survivors complain about something the devs are there to lick their wounds and give them treats. Whatever man,.. Whatever..
Extremely fun perk with rapid brutality, all the haste and undetectable from the event is so nice with these perks, on skull merchant at least
It’s one of the very few perks your top tier killers can’t really capitalize on, and your weak ones can.
Since when was it ever too strong? The discussion on "too strong" keep going down the list of actually worthwhile perks. I took a break from DBD and kinda want to get back into it but all the changes the last 6 or so months are really dumbing it down
Scott, welcome to the family.
If stfl goes down to 6 stacks max, then if you chase the obsession it's unnecessary punishing Bcauz if you hit her twice you have only 2 stacks and basicaly the perk is worthless(, up to 4 stacks it is useful, it being under 4 stacks doesn't make it worth running over other perks in my opignion).
The anti facecamp mechanic should work on an exponential function basis and not on a linear function basis. (Im killer main btw and i can easily see that it is flawed even tho i don't camp( apart if i have a realy good trigen and a hook in the middle of it, Im not crazy)).
The perk is fine and is the only thing keeping m1 killers good while not working on the strongest killers.
it's fine. let the crappy killers have something.
Finally I hear a take on this I agree with. It is a strong perk, but it's also a chase perk that's not broken powerful. It has to be earned and if the survivors find out the killer has it, the obsession can abuse the info and try their best to take away the stacks making it useless. Only time is broken is when used by deathslinger due to his ability but we shouldn't nerf a perk that keeps builds away from just 4 slowdown perks, specially when there are actually busted perks in the game that isn't being changed