Read more Dead by Daylight ➜ https://deadbydaylight.mgn.gg
http://www.twitch.tv/ScottJund
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Read more Dead by Daylight ➜ https://deadbydaylight.mgn.gg
http://www.twitch.tv/ScottJund
https://discord.gg/TheBreaderhood
source
I think the thing you may be missing is that the game is unbalanced, and people have very different views on that very balance partly because of the steep divide between swf and randoms.
I think bhvr should be working on buffing solo survivors with intel so you can nerf survivors as a whole in some form.Because as of right now swf has a ridiculous amount of intel, they're playing a different game than solo survivors tbh.
So you basically end up with a game that manages to be both killer and survivor sided. Survivor sided with swf, and killer sided in solo matchmaking.
Never mind the horrible rng that is add ons or items, or scumbag playstyles.
1:25 "We all agree that if you're playing Legion or Clown or Myers you're not going to win against a very good team you're simply not going to win"
No we don't. Good players (at least at their respective mains) have proved countless times by now that even with Pig you can win most of your matches against sweaty high MMR teams so the tier list argument is honestly pointless. If you get bullied hard on Legion then you likely were gonna be bullied just as hard if you were playing Spirit anyway. Btw, Pinky Finger Clown and Tombstone Myers are anything but low tier at high MMR. Always amuse me to see such a casual playerbase being this obsessed with tier list lol.
Damn well I must be fucking horrible at the game because my average kills per game is like 1.5. It is rare that I can get more than 2 kills because I get completely destroyed almost every game I play.
Honestly the thing I took the most out of this video was that if you don't follow survivor rule book you can win most of your games.
killer mains are just triggered cuz now they have to admit to themselves that they might not be as good as they thought they are. X) Truth hurts. I play both sides and i never thought one side is particuarly stronger.
Also there is just much RnG going on in that game, which influences the outcome of every game a lot.
I hoped the mmr would finally show the devs how weak some killers are against 4 really good survivors, but Otz challenge would honestly make them think killers are balanced with no perks and add-ons. So mmr system is worse than we thought, and they definitely need to fix it. Honestly it should be a reworked emblem system to measure skill, how you performed in the match rather than did you survive or not because of the asymmetrical design of it.
I noticed it a long time ago that there is a vocal part of DBD's Community, I don't know if its big or small, that just don't want to get better and then complain that other side is op and their side should get buffed. Like really, I see them post videos with comments like "this is total bs bhvr fix it" and it is showing how they are loosing presumably because the game is other sided but they don't realize they are in truth showing how they didn't do basic stuff, even basic stuff as looking behind as surv or … using your power as killer…
And now when Otz show them that it is possible they don't want to listen and instead create that disinformation to prove that they are right
People saying otz has low MMR makes no sense. For some reason people seem to forget that otz is a really good player. So, otz can make even some pretty good players look average or not that great.
I still don't understand truthfully what Otz proved except for he's played the game a bunch, is seriously one of the best players at the game, and whether it's killer or survivor, there is an uncanny advantage of Otz against randos.
Otz is a god as killer and knows every killer probably inside and out, could rattle off every single killer perk, killer add-on, and talks about the meta of every killer when updates happen in 20 hour long videos.
You can also see it when Otz played Oracle and almost had a 2+k. Is it just… He's just that good?
What do you guys think about a great item and addon wipe and every 6 months or so or maybe even sooner. This alone will do nothing but as is just about every web contains a purple or red item, collectively as a whole this makes it to pretty much every match someone is bringing something very strong. Survivors webs are littered with many purples and reds that i find useless considering i only use beamers but others will bring a toolbox with a bnp or a medkit. The variety in a killers web is significantly smaller compared to the survivors due to them being mostly addons meaning the more easier and quicker it is to find the strong things you want. As I've said as a whole this adds up, just about every match you see a killer with insane addons with all the meta perks. I only play survivor solo q and 90% of the time bring a beamer or use whatevers in a chest, i personally havent had the luxury of having competent teammates who havent the slightest idea of what they're doing or how to look behind them in a chase, I know that killers however often struggle with survivors who bring strong items and since there's 4 of them it only increases the chances they also bring strong items and the game just turns into an unfun experience for both sides. Id like to see items and addons to actually be the rarity they say they are instead of outright common, perhaps the bloodwebs could be much smaller so you can grab the perks with the price of other things and the bp cap to go up. The killers that need their addons reworked can have commons that make a little impact but but aren't outright useless. Prestiging as a survivor you can increase the chance of getting the item type you want (not rarity) by 1% each and for killer i suppose rarity chance increase by 1%. Lmk what you think about this i think it can go a long way in helping out balance the game
simple lots of killers reach high mmr that are really only mid tier skilled killers so they cry about the game being survivor sided.
I bet Scott can't point out potatoes on Monto's Videos.he always gets shitty players in his lobbies
A good comparison is fighting games. You can be a top rank player with a s tier character and still lose to a low tier. Humans are not perfect and neither are their lists on tier maker.
Otz plays the game for a living for hours and hours every day. There’s no doubt that he can take a trash killer and do amazing things with them. Who cares though? Are we supposed to judge the games balance based around what one of the best players in the world can do? A guy who literally plays the game every day as his job? Again, who cares.
I think people are conflating the idea that Killer is kinda boring nowadays with the idea that killer is bad and survivors are way stronger. Survivor has strong shit, but Killer still ultimately holds a lot of the cards in a match, it's just not fun to play optimal killer, and you don't necessarily have to play optimal survivor to do well, which is why I think people think the game is absurdly survivor sided.
you're fucking forgetting otz has INSANE fucking hours in this fucking game and he's probably not always going against SWF
Anyone else feel like people are blowing the cheater issue out of proportion?
I took the whole experiment as BHVR rewarding shitty, unfun gameplay and punishes those who don't want to play for the fun of ALL the players in the game, not just themselves.
It's literally no wonder why this community is toxic as fuck when the game rewards you for playing like a selfish shithead. BHVR is honestly so garbage at rewarding fun gameplay.
100% Agree Scott. Well said.
What’s up with the lighting in this vid
Youre forgetting the "weak link" is typically someone with a toolbox using spine chill so they can be hard to find. Even then all it takes is one area of the map with strong loops in close proximity for them to waste enough of your time or you have to leave them, they heal up and run back there anytime u chase. We dont play killer as a job its a hobby so naturally you n otz are gunna perform better
Of course really good killers with experience playing clown can beat good teams….
Not going to lie usually i get frustrated watching your videos but damn you smashed it this time round.
How do we know he's not lowering his MMR off stream?
i got banned off of trues twitch chat for saying "the ego haha"
But… the thing is, he is Otz and part of his games are on a time where full swfs arent still playing (the good ones), later on the stream they are (night time), I know people that play this game 8h+ a day but arent as good as Otz and cant even get 1-2k using the stronger things on stronger killers, so Idk.. Im still a bit biased, if I tried to do what Otz did, I wouldnt be able to get at least 2K every game perkless with bad killers and 30s afk :/
And I think Im on the soft cap, because I only used to play killer before switch to surv to keep winning, and any time I try to go as killer and I go against Steam players, they are all SWF with 2-3k hours EACH and with all meta perks and strongest items, and thats above the average of my games, now a rare thing, or that or Im cursed lmao
I feel like this disclosure on how bhvr gives mmr is going to be a discussion tbf.
I think tru3 gets better survs u should check his vod and analyze their survs he goes against
This whole situation frames the issue poorly in my opinion. Trying to argue that a game is in the favor of one side or the other cannot be disproven by the "average experience." For one, most people aren't trying to play their best game every single game because people are typically playing more casually on the survivor side. They have no knowledge of this challenge that Otz or anyone else is attempting and if they did they would play differently. It makes no sense to judge a game's balance by casual gameplay, because even the very good survivors are probably just messing around with friends. A better way to frame the issue would most likely be "Casual play is not survivor-sided" rather than "DBD is not survivor-sided."
I feel like this should be obvious, but any game's balance should be focused around making a fair experience for high-level play while keeping things interesting as you get lower in skill. However, when you balance around casual/mid-level play, you progressively get a more and more broken and unbalanced experience as you get higher in skill. The existence of Boons alone should be a clear indication of which side this game tends to favor (Even with Circle of healing excluded).
DBD is a solved game at this point, and tournaments seem to prove this time and time again. Survivors start the game and all find a different gen to work on, one will most likely be found and has the killer chase them for a while. By the time the first survivor is down, three gens will be completed (at around 1:30 or 2:00). One person could then try to either get the save and/or distract killer while the other two work on the last gens. Depending on how well the killer camps the hook, they get 0-1 kill(s) (maybe 2 if they get lucky and/or play well) and end up with 4 or less hooks by game's end.
On killer's side, the procedure has to be to find someone, down them, and camp/tunnel them (all the while avoiding BT, DS, and every other second-chance perk/item). Killer then must camp or quasi camp the hook while trying to get a second down (but not hook). Best case scenario is the first person dies on their first hook and the killer can camp the second one out of the game for a second kill. If the killer even once tries to go for more chases VS a team that knows what they're doing, they dramatically increase their chances of losing for every second the hook is not in sight.
In casual play this virtually never happens, but that does not mean that the game is not survivor-sided, it just means that survivors aren't coordinated, are not trying that hard, or otherwise are less skilled at the game.
I don't want this to feel like I'm rambling, but the point I'm trying to make is that framing balance around casual experience is never a good idea (even at high MMR), and that it only leads to a more divisive community because people are basing everything off of their own experiences. It's fine for people to not be the best at something, that's why casual modes and ranked modes exist in games, but the balance of a game must be determined by what CAN be done, not what happens MOST of the time.
The biggest problem I see with DBD at the moment (and for a while really) is that people that care way too much about winning and much less about actually improving latch onto this game because they see it as a safe-space for them. In any other game they might have to learn, improve, and maybe even accept a loss from time to time, but in DBD they can consistently win with just a group of friends. So when there is a proposed change that would make things harder for them, they feel personally attacked by it rather than recognizing that it might be good for the overall game. It's also why these same type of people have to attack the other side at the end of the match when something doesn't work out for them, because they went into the match fully expecting to win.
P.S. I also recognize that many people might dismiss this as killer-main BS, but I just want to state that I did play both sides on this game, and recognize the inherent biases on each side because of it. There are definitely issues with toxic killer mentality as well, so if you agree with this maybe a little too much then I would probably say to make sure you don't have any killer bias either when viewing this issue. It's because of the game being survivor-sided that issues like this always get swept under the rug and dismissed, so I hope that if you took the time to read all this nonsense you try to leave any emotional bias out of it. Even though I have quit DBD (for now at least), I still want it to improve (even though I find it unlikely), so I hope all this was helpful for someone and/or the conversation.
oh no, you are all blowin into the same horn…
thats new….
not…
2:48 "We were"? No! Just because you or Otz said that in a Video and Dowsey and your EE buddies clapped on your shoulders, it is not "common sentiment".
Definition of God Complex…
Also no one "misinerpreted this wrong"…
he made a clickbait Title that pisses of everyone with a brain and is living in reality
and then does the usual stuff he, you and the others I said do…
1-spin stuff until all other are stupid, not high skill or whatever names you give them!
2-Takes Experiments as example that can not be taken as representetive
3-Says at least 10 times "let`s assume" per Video only from then on handling the said thing as fact… similar to what you did with that "common sentiment" thing…
4-Does the old "this is all to easy for me, they have to make it a bigger challenge for me but if orget that I play this Game 10 hours a Day" Song! Like you and Dowsey and Oh Tofu!
Delete Bloodlust and stupid BS like that! And then talk about "common sentiment" only because some of your Friends and the People in your Comment Section (aka YOUR Bubble) repeat the stuff you say…
Dam. Where are these low skill survivors when i play? All i get are the sweaty ones
Games not balanced. And matchmaking favours too many crap survivors.
I do want to say, this isn't entirely fair on either Tru3 or Otz. (Just 2 for examples)
For one; Tru3 plays during the day where it is INCREDIBLY well known in EU that during that time of day it is peak SWFs and Sweat.
As for Otz who like you said is same timezone HAS NEVER played during these hours. It is also well known that during Otz's streams/playtimes that the lobbies become insanely chill after 7-8pm, so regardless of MMR it's not peak gaming hours when Otz is ever on.
I believe Otz needs to test this more during midday, not when he gets on at night where the casual and chill people arrive. That's all!
Good take, but I think what a lot of people being mad at Otz for who you address in this video are frustrated at trying to play killer, and while that leads to some seemingly irrational hate, I think the core problem lies with DBD itself and these frustrated individuals aren't properly communicating the issue/frustration they are having. And that is: DBD never overtly or explicitly tells a Killer when they make a mistake, and usually the only time the Killer knows if they have messed up somewhere is when gates are open and everyone is leaving. This is the core issue when playing Killer. As a survivor, you make a mistake in a loop you get hit, miss a gen check the gen blows, and so on. But killer, the game says nothing when they take a chase they shouldn't have, stay in a chase for too long, leave someone on the ground that they shouldn't have, going left when they should have gone right etc. This leads to that frustration which manifests as the irrational takes/pushback to Otz's and others videos. It is extremely hard to get better at something when you never know when you make a mistake (if its even only 1!). Practicing something wrong but never getting told what was wrong leads to extremely slow progression in skill. This holds true in any sport, activity, or skill. Practice it wrong and all you are doing is wasting effort and time. Where this comes back to the video and Otz is that this game is extremely playable when people have gotten over that hidden learning curve of thousands of hours, but right now the game does nothing to help killers get better so it takes thousands of hours to get to a spot where you can have a good chance against good survivors. I would say to you and Otz that maybe you try to make How to play Killer videos, but break them down in a way and focus them on those in game decision moments, to help regular people break down a game step by step, simply, and how more casual people can identify mistakes so that when they are playing they can get more effective practice at the game and know when they make a mistake rather than just seeing the four survivors standing in the open exit gate.
For people who play the game for a living and have more hours into the game than most people put into 10 games combined I'm sure this experiment is accurate. For the 99.9% of other players who simply play for fun this experiment has nothing to do with them. The game is an unbalanced shit show where if you want to come close to having a match that is fun and not a landslide you must play sweaty.
TLDR Otz still slugs…
It’s funny seeing Scott white knighting Otz against all of the “toxic” people.
Except he was the one trying to get another streamer cancelled for disagreeing with him.
Making an entire video telling him he did twitch wrong and was bad at the game or whatever.
The toxic man child tells the other toxic man children not to be toxic.
That’s pretty funny dude.
I don’t think Otz is wrong.
But I think mentioning Tru3, knightlight and Justyn as examples that otz is right, is wrong.
Knightlight and Justyn are way better players overall than Tru3 and otz. Ofc they are gonna have high mmr but they are also gonna be waaaay better than the majority of players.
Tru3 and Otz are veteran players. Tru3 plays every day. I would like to remind everyone that THEY BOTH STRUGGLE IN PUBS, even with meta builds and even meta killers.
And in regard to knightlight and Justyn and players like that, they all know that if they play against survivors at their level that are allowed meta builds, they are gonna lose.
Whatever the point you are trying to make Scott Jund, Otz’ theory doesn’t at all change the fact that at high level, survivors dominate.