Stop Comparing Dead by Daylight's Gameplay Design to Anything Else Outside the Genre

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40 thoughts on “Stop Comparing Dead by Daylight's Gameplay Design to Anything Else Outside the Genre”

  1. I think people are taking this title way too literally. You can obviously compare non-specific things like hitboxes, projectiles, etc to other games. This is about game design. I'll update the title to better reflect that because I didn't think we'd go into that level of pedantry looooool

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  2. I disagree on the counter-strike point, because I do think that the game is in some ways asymmetrical. And it's not because one side is attacking and the other side is defending. It's because one side spawns into the match actively losing the game. The attackers, if they do nothing, will always lose the match, meanwhile, the defenders will always win. So that means, the attackers have to push towards a site and plant the bomb before they lose the game. Another way counter-strike can is asymmetrical is how matches can play out. As attackers, all you need to do is plant one bomb on any of the sites, so your entire squad can move together and use numbers to try to overwhelm a site, while the defenders have no way of knowing which site the enemy team is going for, so they have to station an even number of people to each site and react accordingly to the attacking side. Yes, both sides have access to the exact same equipment and every character does the same thing but I believe that counterstrike is definitely asymmetrical in nature (just not to the degree of dbd or evolve).

    where I do agree is that comparing literally any other game aside from dbd clones to dbd is damn near impossible because it's like trying to compare a visual novel to an fps. Just because you use the left-click doesn't mean they're the same thing.

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  5. I frequently compare dbd to identity V they both have the same goals and design, the only difference is that idv has been taken in a different direction to dbd in where the game is much more fast paced and I don't think many dbd players will like. To win the killer has to tunnel and camp because the gen rush in idv is ridiculous. Dbd players will find it scummy but to idv players that's just the nature of the game. Highly suggest you play this game it does some things that I think dbd could learn from

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  7. I just feel like the main thing holding DBD back is failing to give it a proper win condition. Identity V. a game in the same genre and it just goes for it and says half of the team being eliminated is a tie. more or less it a win or loss respectively and vice versa for the survivor side.

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  8. I disagree on the card example, only because most competitive players going into win these, still can lose or win on card draws, and deck building is based around win percentages with your deck and trying counter other decks you might think will be in the tourney(as well as other skills), But DBD's percentage of winrate based off your perks, is swayed HEAVY, by how your team plays and the map is built, it's like having a card game with multiple players building the deck, and adding random extra cards to the deck.

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  10. I think comparing DBD to Identity V is honestly a good way of looking at issues in DBD though, since there are a lot of changes between the two that make them play differently even just when you're starting to play. IDV determines wins based solely on the number of escaped survivors for both sides, with a draw if two escape. It also only has four sources of map rng, which are that gens spawn in 7 of 11 different preset locations, the basement spawns in one of two locations and has a few different hook layouts, there are a few different preset spawn setups (the number is different for each map) and the hatch automatically spawns at one of several locations once two gens are done, and only opens if there's a single survivor left in the match. The game has a map feature that lets you look at all of the spawn locations for gens, players and the hatch for the different maps if you want to learn them for each map. That mixed with the way that the game handles loadout customization makes it feel surprisingly different from DBD despite having a lot of similar mechanics.

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  15. While Scott's overall statement here is correct, I do think there are individual gameplay elements you can compare to an extent beyond just stuff like hitboxes.
    For example, during a chase, many of the same fundamentals/mechanics are similar to other 1 on 1 games like fighting games — similar mindgames, etc.
    Like I don't think it's a coincidence that Scott was an experienced PvP duelist in Dark Souls/For Honor and also just so happened to become a strong killer in DBD relatively quickly.

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  20. I mean you basically stated the obvious. It'd be more interesting if you'd talked about comparisons between DBD and Evolve/Home Sweet Home: Survive/Other asymmetrical games in an at least slightly equal genre. I've never had a discussion where DBD was being compared to CS:GO but hundreds of discussions with comparisons between DBD and e.g. Evolve.

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  22. Though I wouldn't call Counterstrike or CoD:MW Search and Destroy asymmetrical, I don't believe player count is the defining factor. This is very demonstrable in board games such as Root or Panic on Wall Street. Asymmetrical gameplay, is best described, both by player count on each side, but more so the gameplay of each side.

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  27. Doesn't league of legends have rng with something called dragons and people complain because its game changing, idk I don't play league because I'm straight

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  28. Although apples are a fruit and helicopters are not, they actually have many other similarities. First of all they are both delicious. The taste of a helicopter and the taste of an apple are practically the same, the difference comes in texture. Where helicopters have more of a hard, metallic structure, apples have more of a chewy, yet crunchy, texture. I personally find the taste of both delicious, and the textures very appealing as well. The next similarity I want to draw upon is the value. If someone were to ask me, "Would you like an apple or a helicopter?" I would say, "Surprise me." If you are like me and cannot fly a helicopter it's value is brought significantly lower, equal to that of an apple. Now if you or a loved one can fly a helicopter, obviously this scenario is unrealistic, as the value of the helicopter jumps up significantly. But as I cannot fly a helicopter, I would not mind if I were to receive it or an apple (maybe even both ;). The final comparison I would like to make is the work that goes into producing these items. For making an apple, you put a seed in the dirt, wait a few years, bam! Apple tree. It is pretty simple. Same goes for a helicopter. Get some metal, some tape, a PT6T Twin-Pac engine, some propellers, and there you go you've got a helicopter. They have practically the same production time, money, and physical work. In conclusion, apples and helicopters are more the same than different, and to say they are completely different things is a baseless claim and a toxic ideology that needs to be left in the past.

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  31. well i usually use overwatch as an example of the problem with match making, for example red rank isnt' skill, it is like overwatch, rank 1 is like grandmaster- plat in skill then gold – bronze is the other ranks it is a big issue in dbd of the skill cap so how to fix it, idk, second i also use the whole frustration of dbd, if you are a killer and doing a challenge and you are running like common add ons verse like a depip squad, then they get frustrated and use the old irehead every match cause they are frustrated from the depip squad, in overwatch you can switch your heroes to counter and adjust to the enemy but in dbd you can't every match design shows why dbd is so different for a team based.

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  33. You can’t even compare this to Last Year because in that one the survivors can attack back and it’s a completely dead game still being sold for $ on Steam even though there is no player base at all.

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  36. Scott I usually like your takes but I honestly lost a lot of respect for you here.

    If you can't acknowledge that DBD and Alien Isolation are basically the same game because they both have a mechanic where you hide in lockers then you honestly shouldn't be talking about video games.

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  38. I think DBD is actually very comparable to some aspects of Smash bros. If you treat the roaming state of survivors as a neutral game, and the chase state a combo game. Then once you're in a chase you're under pressure to escape the chase or "combo". Usually involving various options and specifically reads and mind games. In smash bros you can do what's called a tech chase which is when you have someone in a combo and they have a set of 4 options and you have to guess what option they will take and capitalize on it. I think this happens in dbd in loop situations where the survivor has a small amount of mixups and options while the killer is trying to eliminate those options efficiently enough to get a hit. Thus creating a flowchart sort of dance between the players.

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