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Condemn Sadako is absurdly obnoxious to go against and yet without it she’s a better bad killer, which puts me in kind of a moral bind.
http://www.twitch.tv/ScottJund
source
Read more Dead by Daylight ➜ https://deadbydaylight.mgn.gg
Condemn Sadako is absurdly obnoxious to go against and yet without it she’s a better bad killer, which puts me in kind of a moral bind.
http://www.twitch.tv/ScottJund
source
I find myself confused because of the way you worded this argument. On the one hand, Sadako slugging players to nearly bleed-out is obnoxious. On the other hand, Sadako is unplayable otherwise because she can't get downs. That is how it's worded here at least, but it doesn't really make a lot of sense thinking about it that way. You said Sadako can get downs by ambushing players and camping a three-gen, but complain that she needs chase buffs. If the Sadako can't get downs and win chases normally, why not just employ that exact same tactic? The real reason I think why Sadako needs a chase buff is because of her overreliance on the three-gen strategy and perks to give her the time to set up ambushes, and those perks are probably real likely to get nerfed soon based on the constant complaints about the meta they cause.
I don't disagree the problem is there, but I think you've pointed out the wrong culprit. Removing Ring Drawing doesn't ruin her chase, because a Sadako that can't chase can't use it anyways. It ruins the consistency of getting Condemned stacks, so wouldn't the solution be to just make a counter to this gameplan that doesn't force stacks? For example, excluding "downed to healthy" as a trigger for the Ring Drawing (as someone else already suggested, which would give her a gameplay loop similar to Legion or Plague), or imposing an additional restriction (both survivors must be injured for the Condemned to spread, for example, which would at least give them an option) would probably be a better idea than just giving up on the addon entirely.
If I recall, One Pump Willie runs Bloody Fingernails as a sideboard pick while doing his Condemned Sadako matches sometimes. The Iridescent Tape is arguably the bigger enabler of the playstyle (very debatable) due to it giving Sadako a reasonable way to get TV's to respawn.
Someone fact check me on this, but if I recall there's an option in the game code that would specifically have her respawn tv's on hit from materializing (1 tv, iirc). Additionally reworking the red tape and having that be basekit would also curb the nastiness a lot, imo.
I play sadako a lot and you don’t necessary need ring drawing for this to work. It’s her eri add on that makes this so op. nerfing / removing ring drawing won’t do anything imo people will still slug as it’s just in her play style
I've been playing Survivor on NA lately because of the London server instabilities and my first NA match ever was against One Pump Willie running this build on RPD. It was one of the experiences ever.
I thought I was clever using this add on when she came out, combined with STBFL…But I’m not sweaty. I just did it to get more value when they heal each other. Otherwise I just played the game like normal, so try the caveat that I’d try and lure the chases near tv’s to build up condemned.
For some sadako buffs I think some minor buffs to her chase like more passive phasing, faster manifest and demanifest speed, and maybe make her give condemn stacks when a hitting a survivor would be nice but, I think giving her tv cooldown and teleport speed a buff would be better. Having slightly stronger chase and a lot more mobility and map pressure would go much further in strengthening her 4v1. And by making her able to teleport more it would also mean she can spread condemn better and make it more of a threat without her needing to use a slugging playstyle. Also would have the added benefit of making survivors have to do their tapes more giving her better game delay even if she's still weaker in chases and the 1v1. That's at least my opinion on how to buff her. It doesn't change her identity too much and doesn't make her just another decentish chase killer. Instead it gives her a more unique place as a 4v1 killer that is a sort of mix of chasing and the condemn playstyle so both sides can be happy. She might still not be the most fun to use for actual chases without an overhaul to her power but, she would at least reward good game sense and strategy so her skill ceiling will go up
if i feel especially evil i bring knock out on top of this build. people hate it. also the pink tape is another important piece of the build because you get so many extra teleports especially if you’re corralling survivors into tv’s
i dont think the problem is the sadako condemn gameplay but having these slow down perks stacking with eachother is just obnoxious and unhealthy, the killer power and the addons arent really the problem its the perks. this game will be more healthy if we did not have progression or regression perks/addons/items on bothside. the devs need to stop thinking about this generator infused updates and focus on the actual gameplay of the game with fun chase perks etc but we probably gonna get more gen perks with another chapter because the devs obsession and tunnel vision about this gen speed changing mechanics.
I've had a round like this with a 4 swf. Luckily I had a boon.
I ended up bleeding out on the floor, two of my friends killed themselves on their first hooks, she got one with her mini mori.
The whole round took more than 40 minutes.
…The killer complained in the afterchat about my boon and how OP it was. XD
I love that people talk about my boy OnePumpWillie now any time Sadako and condemned are part of the conversation.
The argument of "people have to do this really obnoxious strategy because they aren't playing a strong killer and would otherwise lose" always bothers me. If winning is that important to them, they could just… play a stronger killer and not do this shit. Or just play normally, and if they lose then so be it. The only reason to do this is if you feel like being an asshole and giving people the most boring match of their life.
To me this is like Infinite Tombstone Myers. He doesn't care about the game, he just stalks and at the end of the game he don't even down you, he just kills.
call of brine eruption overcharge nowhere to hide knight dropping guards at gens so if you touch it in a guard hunt the gen blows up is equally painful
so um, Confession to make: I was trying out Condemn Only Sadako before hearing about OPW… and I find it fun… on indoor maps…
I am no where near OPW's level, but what I like about it is that: It's Playing the Game, but with a different Objective. There's a lot more chases; a lot more thought where your forcing Survs to chase to; Survs slowly reduce the amount of Pallets, medkits, and safety where they're running to; and, to the Survs that start to figure it out, they interact with the TVs more and make it a race at times
~A Change I wouldn't mind for RD Add-on would be Letting Survs remove 4 Stacks of Condemn{like in the PTB} and then Buff some aspect of Sadako's Condemn Power to involve Hooking
I really want Sadako to get a complete rework. Her power makes no sense. You should gain condemn when putting a tape into a TV not lose condemn, it would make more sense thematically based on the movie. It’s backwards right now.
Thank you for bringing this to my attention, my 93 ring drawings and 23 iri tapes are looking real nice
Anyone have the long match where he faced the sadako with zubat?
Thematic buff idea: Make it so that when you look at her (like Ghostface), your Condemned increases. Having to take chase against her would be a unique take, since every time you'd look back to where she is, you're slowly building a small bit of Condemn. All the mechanics already exist in the game, so it'd be a easy enough means to implement.
bla bla nerf (insert killer) bla bla soloQ bla bla boring. This is the standard in DBD videos lately. Funnily enough, nobody seems to find setting on gens boring and needs to change.
Honestly I think it just amplifies how annoying the current Gen-kick meta. This strat wouldn't work without CoB/Overcharge and/or Eruption.
Not saying those perks are the problem (they are a problem, not this specific problem), but they are what makes this play style especially aids to go against, because they allow you to stall a match for 20–40 minutes.
The strat would still be annoying, but the Killer would have more of a time constraint/need to hook ppl. Sadako and Condemn strat amplifies how problematic this current meta is, similar to Knight. She stalls the match forever, because she isn't permanently progressing the match, but the Survivors also aren't progressing the match.
Also as a sidenote, the iridescent add-on paired with Ring Drawing should be nerfed, but also partially implemented into base, because it's insane how much extra value she gets from it, but also ridiculous how worthless her tp mobility is without it.
Time to expect more of this killer since he is talking about it in a video lol. Also no this isn't any hate towards him, but anytime I see a content creator talk about how good/annoying killer build this is you happen to see it a lot more in matched for the next week.
Honestly I don't get how this condemned style always gets drawn out. Whenever I decide to play that style I just slap on BBQ or discordance or anything survivor location info perk and I kill through condemned at regular match speed. Sluggin is just unfun for everyone
I think the best decision would be to keep the ring drawing but nerf it so that it wouldn't work on downed survivors, so she'd be incentivised to pick up and hook
i actually main condemn sadako and a part of me is biased so i'm gonna try and be as neutral as possible
firstly skill issue+ratio+fell off
secondly i half agree with your statement on condemn sadako being problematic, she's miserable to play against and it's nearly impossible to win against as long as the sadako is competent with the condemn playstyle, now before i get killed for saying this read this whole comment to understand my point of view but personally this isn't exclusive to sadako, killers like pig can do this too with tampered timer and box of gears with a bit of tunnelling and also ring drawing isn't her problematic perk, her iridescent tape is, while everything that scott said about ring drawing is true, he missed out on one very important detail, condemn is spread meaning they must have at least one stack of condemn to apply the ring drawing addon, does this justify it's power? definitely not but this means that self healing in any way bypasses this addon hence why full on condemn sadako players don't run this addon but instead run the bloody fingernails (the move speed bonus from a tv lasts a little bit longer) and the iri tape which is what makes sadako so problematic.
what iridescent tape does is that if you hit someone within 8 seconds of manifesting, 3 random tv's turn back on bypassing the 100 second tv cooldown, this works with teleporting through tv's too, now i know you might think, this is strong but ring drawing is both equally as strong AND it's a green addon unlike the iri tape which is iridescent but this perk alone is what makes 3 genning so strong on sadako, lets say you're taken to rpd and the sadako has a 3 gen, 2 in the main room and one in the library, the sadako doesn't have ring drawing but has the iri tape bloody fingernails combo. by the time you have to do the 3 gen, she no longer has to worry about teleporting since you only need the 3 tv's by your 3 gen and even if the survivors take the tape out of all 3 tv's, the iri tape addon makes that redundant since one manifestation hit turns all 3 tv's back on, this alone is the reason why sadako's play so heavily into 3 gens.
now in the video scott mentioned that slugging is a way to know if a sadako is running the condemn build since you gain value from ring drawing but that is only half true, the other reason is how her playstyle works, condemn sadako is a very high risk, very high reward kind of play, the reason why people slug with sadako is to apply an insane amount of pressure but also for map knowledge for tv placements, here's an example, i'm running a condemn sadako build and there's a survivor who i can guarantee a hit on with 6 stacks of condemn and everyone else has 4 stacks and 2 of the 3 have tapes meaning there's 5 tv's available, now i'm smart in the way i play so instead of teleporting and getting the condemn kill straight up i down the injured survivor near the tv and because the 2 survivors with tapes are making it their priority to remove their tapes asap since they're about to be condemn killed, the 3rd survivor has to go for save now the moment the downed survivor with 6 stacks is picked up i can then teleport to the once downed survivor condemning them while also gaining a 5th stack on the other survivor and 3 tv's have now been reset so once i mori the downed survivor i could probably guarantee a second mori kill and all of that can be done within a minute WITHOUT any ring drawing addon.
So long story short, yes this needs changing BUT i don't think condemn sadako is any more miserable than any other killer abusing their most op builds like tampered timer pig, impossible skillcheck doctor, forever freddy etc, a very simple change for sadako is to buff her base kit (addonless) to make condemn possible but not broken like whenever she hits a survivor 8 seconds instantly passes on tv cooldowns then rework her really bad and or really problematic addons such as both iridescent addons and ring drawing to make her kit less polarizing
The easiest rework that wouldn’t need much programming is to give her a short phase like the spirit after she manifests herself.
Willie is such a great guy making people want to stop streaming because of one single match against him or making people burnt out after 1 match
Went against it, luckily the stars aligned and I got smart solo q teamates and CoH clutched it mad hard. In the current war of attrition meta CoH is so good 😫😫
they should buff her so that when you are looking at her your screen gets more and more static until you can barley see. being punished for looking at the killer should be very strong but not broken.
I play slug-free Condemned Sadako and it's totally viable without slugging, I still get 4Ks and I still get Survivors whining and giving up
Had a solo Q team last night with a Sadako running the condemned build and the match lasted 40 mins until she just gave up and started hooking players because it was going on too long lmao. My God it is the worst probably for both sides.
I like the playstyle when you go against someone you have a CHANCE of winning against with it…. I went against One Pump Willie right after a few imitators and it was absolute hell.
this playstyle also works with Bloody fingernails (second addon is Iri. Videotape). Ring drawing isn't actually "must have" for this
woah. losing in video games feels bad? crazy.
It was fun at first. I got all Moris in less than five minutes at five or four gens and now I play her normal but take advantage when I can of condemned. The novelty of it is gone
Why would you wanna spend 40 minutes in a match, in a game that isn't competative? i'll take the 30 minute ban.
TVs should have a 60 second cooldown but each TV should only be able to inflict condemned every 100 seconds
Actually the most obnoxious playstyle right now in my opinion are the Pinheads who just always somehow find the box and constantly start chain hunts. Oh and they also immediately attack you the moment you touch it.
Having the chain hunt active all the time is incredibly strong and stops you from doing anything.
Sadako doing the condemned abusing at least requires a brain/luck/playing well to actually pull off.
ALL killers can do this with perks and just run the gametime out its not just sadako
imo Circle of Healing cannot get another nerf until this Sadako playstyle is nerfed first. CoH is the only thing that can counter this playstyle. They need to change the ring drawing addon, buff Sadako, and then I'll be fine if they wanna nerf CoH again.
Swf's are the most annoying strategy
I dc if I go against the ring bitch doing that strat. I’ll take the 40 seconds.