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i had to remove “unaliver” in the title cause youtube is stupid
tl;dr: Just simply getting 4 good survivors is the actual scary nightmare scenario for killer. Comms are a force multiplier for skill. If the players are just average skill, the comms don’t matter much. If they are all good players, you’re in trouble.
http://www.twitch.tv/ScottJund
source
"In a SWF my escape rate went up 300%*" (*it was 200%, 100% would put you at 6/10, 200 puts you at 9/10)
"A SWF has major advantages and free perks via communication"
"We had no communication though!" (Had a stream with perfect visual and audio information and a team with a goal to get scott through his achievements no matter what)
"Communication makes 4 really good survivors in a group infinitely better"
CoMmUniCaTiOn iSn'T a PrObLeM, iT's JuSt GoOd PlAyErS
You can have both dude. Not only is your point completely nonsense and directly countered BY YOUR OWN ARGUMENTS; but you could have just said "4 good players in a team is an uphill fight for a killer and comms takes that fight and makes it impossible; look how we did with minimal 1 way communication from my stream."
Bruh, hire me, I will make your arguments so much more cohesive and consistent.
Do it all again but on console.
"Survive with Friends". You know, I always thought it was "Survivor Friends"…
also the people who think they're going against god squads every match are weak players themselves. people see the perspective of killers that are better players than them and think they're getting "paid actor" lobbies basically because their own games don't look like that, but they fail to realize the very obvious general skill / experience difference
yes it is!
oh no…a swf of good players is better than a swf of bad players?
And you think THAT is proof of SWF not being OP?
Really?
That is a whole other Level of stupid^^
4:15 “we’re going against the same players” WELL- hear me out. And maybe I’m wrong.
What if we’re *not*.
We know survival rate is lower at higher MMR than it is overall rn. (Maybe that’s just because matches with DCs aren’t included and DCs usually happen more at lower MMRs? – if they do – although the ‘DC tech’ with SWFs is usually a high MMR tryhard thing)
But if MMR is functioning and DCs aren’t enough of a factor to skew the data when excluding it – then there is something wrong. Highest MMR should have the most even survival to kill rate or a few things are happening…
(1) kill rates are higher at top MMR because matchmaking no longer adequately applies skill bias – SBMM is not working.
(2) veteran survivors are leaving the game. Therefore the pool of available skilled survivors is too small.
(3) killer was over-buffed and survivor was over-nerfed, creating a new defacto survivor MMR ceiling…. Thus, Sending the skilled survivors to lower mmrs to verse killers who aren’t ready for that skill level.
If (3) is true it could also explain the extreme increase in tunneling and camping.
First) BHVR changes SBMM to prioritize quick matches
Second) BHVR does 6.1.0
Third) skilled Survivors have to relearn to play a new endurance meta style game while the killer role didn’t have really any growing pains (dh bait and wait still works, if not better than before – most stealth perks were nerfed while tunneling itself was buffed overtime)
Fourth) after 6.1.0 survivors lose. A.Lot. While learning the new style – (if you ran DH DS iron will etc)
FIFTH) now these vets are stuck at a new invisible MMR barrier- and when they peak up into the killers at top 5% MMR – they’re are all Range Nurse and AlcyBlight, Ring Spirit etc (or Catdaddy Wesker).. and the survivors immediately go back down.
Sixth) so now the killers below top 5% are mostly versing very skilled survivors … and they really DO have to tunnel to win for their skill… while the top 5% killers are getting whoever is most soon available for this match and then maybe a 4man gigasquad for another …
Tunneling increased because mid MMR killers feel they have to tunnel to win while versing meta SWFs who aren’t where they should be because killer is too powerful rn.
Idk, could be wrong but the game has felt SO off lately… and it’s also what may be influencing the skill of killers you got while in these matches as well. (Aside from the possibility of a SWF mate smurfing, or the possibility that your 3/10 previous escape rate set the killer quality to be very low).
I consider myself a baby killer and I feel as though I am lucky to 2K and then I watch killermains who’ve been playing this game for years and they get Megs who don’t look around and get grabbed off Gens or just run in a straight line in the open… (I also do not tunnel unless by accident). Also – I only play killer when there is a killer bonus so that I can get the most accurate SBMM. I mostly play survivor otherwise and escape probably every other match on a good night and 0 matches on a bad night. 🤷🏻♀️
I actually find it interesting. When I play with my friends, we actually lose more games than when I play solo. It’s mostly because I think we’re just playing to have fun, not to essentially win, though it’s nice to. We just screw around and have a good time and we try to pull risky plays to save each other. I find I escape more solo than in swf. Additionally, we’re a mix of skill levels; some friends have more experience than others. It’s just having fun.
idk, just basic communication and coordination can totally shit on any killer who doesn't have good built-in map pressure. The ability to call out the killer's location, where gens are, hex locations, and coordinating save attempts can easily be the deciding factor in whether or not a killer destroys a team or doesn't. Coms ABSOLUTELY change a team of average survivors into a team of good survivors. Sure, it doesn't help their basic ability in chase, but it helps them in every other aspect. And I'm not even talking about the more sweaty teams that coordinate perks and design everything around their team advantage.
Literally skill issue
First off, You are wrong about your conclusions about SWF. Yes, it is true that coms ARE the biggest and most problematic aspect of SWF. However, with that said, even SWFs without coms are problematic much more so than a general lobby of solos FOR reasons you later state in your video. I have encountered plenty of lobbies that were all solo queue and been destroyed by very strong teams of solos. However even SWFs without coms are much stronger than those solo teams. The reason for this is because it's "build your own team" of survivors you A) know are strong and B) have enough experience playing with you generally understand what you should be doing without the need to communicate and C) in the event you do need to communicate, have enough experience working with these players that the limited in game communication is sufficient to convey enough information to facilitate highly efficient play. You don't need coms to have high levels of coordination, just loads of practice with the same people.
Second, this is why I've adopted a very aggressive build for my clown. Brutal, Bamboozle, Fire Up, and STBFL. yeah, people laugh but Fire Up is the perk that really shines. Because of clown's slow down, I can force pallet drops faster than other killers and just plow through them, Which I only get faster and faster at as generators are completed. In one or two chases I can create a near map wide dead zone while only loosing a few gens, that's not including any hooks I get. Basically I apply so much pressure in chase that players are not as likely to greed pallets against me. Most games I average a 2k-3k, and I do lose some on occasion; and even then, the games I lose are games with a lot of hooks and usually one kill. It's a lot more fun than babysitting gens all game and even in the event of a gen rush can turn the end game into an impossible situation of hook rotation for SWF teams because of STBFL. I will say the exploitation of killer hitboxes is really annoying though (hitting a survivor removes killer hitbox, another survivor then runs through you and body blocks your target while inside you). It's really obnoxious how the devs keep creating half solutions to problems then just permitting the flagrant abuse of unintended exploits that are created as a result. If they followed through with development, this game could be so much better instead of justifying unintended mechanics or outright exploits as "tactical"; no other PVP game does that, that I'm aware of, they typically have patch notes loaded with "fixed an exploit".
Bs. You can fix the problem of 4 good players are unbeatable – nerf the fckn maps. Less pallets, less connected tiles. Thats it. Make it impossible for survivor to run killer for 4 mins cowshed1v1 style, no matter how good survivor is.
Problems of this game
1) broken maps and perks balanced for survivors
2) broken swf comms power up, with which they can abuse all broken perks, low genspeed and maps all around.
3) insane gape of strength between top and worst killers. I dont want to play fuckinf nurse-blight to be able of defeating strong swf.
And btw youtuber – while you are genuinely find "that weak link" others will do 1337 gens already. And you can find it last after some useless chases on good survivors, and thats the situation when you hooked weak ling but lost 3-4 gens already
Good players tend to play with other good players so that prob doesn’t help with people’s perception of SWF.
I often two man, I don't typically play enough anymore for a full 4 man– ive had so many games where even if I run well and they cannot get me down for a gen or two– that killer ignoring me and smacking even two teammates down constantly, will kill me almost every time unless I get lucky and get hatch. I can't pressure gens if my teammates are getting down'd in 10s, and I cant keep chase if they refuse to chase me.
SWF do gens, randoms do not. That is the difference
4mancompsquad is a single word it seems.
"4mancompsquad of average skill".
The team stacking element is much easier to accomplish in DbD as well. You only need 1 friend of high skill to make the average killers life much harder, imagine 2 more.
Meanwhile, this should show the absolute sad state of solo queue as it's pretty much guaranteed to have a shitter on your team, and that same one is probably going to DC early when they get focused by the killer at all.
4 good survivors are scary to go against. The full defense squad coming together to prevent the 1 kill is kind of nuts sometimes.
To help drive the point home a bit, I've been streaming DbD recently and when streaming I really don't like to comm with people, because fuck if I know what they're going to end up saying and I know my friends and me have pretty dark humor sometimes, I can just filter it out when I'm by myself.
I was playing with 1 of my friends who is mostly new, he doesn't seem interested anymore because I don't want to go into Discord. Meanwhile the games were going fine, aside from the relatively unavoidable mistakes that shouldn't take comms to avoid.
Key example: We played a game against a Wesker, the Wesker wasn't too good and was VERY close campy the entire game. I'm on the hook, the last gen pops and the Wesker proceeds to proxy camp, like he goes 10x further from the hook than he was before. Clear as day sign that he has NOED, because now he can M1 someone running in for the save and get a down instead of playing a grab game. My friend doesn't realize this, he runs in, gets fucked and basically blames not using comms for it.
Skill level is ABSOLUTELY the most important factor. When you play with people you know, you either know them from before OR you know them through DbD likely because they were decent at the game. You aren't playing survivor, seeing someone waste god pallets and kill themselves on first hook and saying, "I want to SWF with that guy."
To further drive the point home, though in a bit of a different way. Just like how comms give pseudo free perks and you can win without them, a lot of people simply rely on the best perks available. I would rather play with teammates using 0 perks, items or offerings, that're really good at the game, versus someone that's bad but using meta perks. General skill at the game is WAY more important for both sides than perks. I remember years ago there was a Demogorgon player named something like "no loadout Demo" and as his name implies, he used nothing in his loadouts. He destroyed us just by playing extremely well.
i heckin hate random mates
Completely true
I ran into 4 really good survivors as deathslinger. I got destroyed the way they used walls to block my sight. I was unable to use my power most of the time , I had to use windows. granted this was on lerys memorial however I still got 2 kills because i got lucky with a crazy good basement spawn which stalled time for endgame collapse. I still got 2 kills in the worst scenario possible because I chased everyone
I really want people in the community to listen what Scott Says about Comps and Weak Links 3:31 @Scott Jund say it again.
I see so many content creator's talking about all they play is Comps, its exaggerated it's a lie I play solos I barely play with people whose top level 75% of players are casuals
TRUE. I purposely chase high level survivors with flashlights. To ultimately make them use pallets to create dead zones for later chases.
Plus, it's kinda funny watching them DC when they realize what they have done. 🤭
You just admitted to game being balanced on bad MMR/survivors being bad/making mistakes. Promote it then like True. Make loops easier for new players and harder for good players (for survivors)
You can fix that, by nerfing gen speed and retarded amount of loops.
Killers should have 70 percent kill rate.
You can't just say comms are a force multiplier and have it make sense.
What's the multiplier, 2x? unless a team's skill level is literally 0 they are twice as effective with comms, or 100% buff to their chance of winning.
keep in mind the multiplier is lower for high skilled players then for weaker players.
The reason is that a high skilled player can probably gather most of the information on their own and comms will just fill in the small pieces.
Well done for trying to think outside the box, but this one is a miss for me.
Done with achievements? You can do challenges.
I know I've heard more than once that you complain that they're not worth doing because it makes people throw the game, so I'd be surprised if they were done already.
Course if they are I'll shut up.
swf arent op anymore, game is pretty much balanced right now if u compare comp scene, but matchmaking/server+hitboxes/mapsRNG etc are beyond terrible.
It makes sense it's harder to find the weak link. They usually hide while the good players make themselves know early.
since this is your latest video I would like to thank you for getting the devs to fix the adept achievement. YOU DID IT SCOTT!
I understand the point you’re trying to make and partially agree but it’s funny to think that you made a 10 minute video to argue the point that good players win more.
Now everyone is a SWF thanks to BHVR. Impossible to play killer in high MMR now due to the events incentive to do gens. Soon we will just say a 2K is a win.
How do you fix going against 4 good players? You can't really except removing SBMM but then the noobs get stomped sooo….
But the other way of fixing it is, and it's a very hard thing to come up with :), balancing the game better. Around top level players and strats and not listening to the waaaay louder Megheads screaming for good stuff to get nerfed because they can't handle it.
Every good PVP is balanced around the highest level of skill and not around to majority.
So your strategy is to exploit the survivors by denying them their resources? Pure evil