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I have some custom perk icons! if you dont recognize a certain perk, its either Windows of Opportunity, Spine Chill, Resilience, No Mither, Self Care, Iron Will, Empathy, Unbreakable, Dead Hard, or Decisive Strike! ft. Survivor Talbot Grimes! (The Blight) The icons were created by WheatDraws!
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I forgive Nemesis mains for tunneling because it’s funny
Honestly I know you can’t watch your teammates but when I play killer no matter how fair I play I always get one toxic survivor. So I tunnel them out. If they won’t show me respect I won’t show them the same. Part of tunneling could be that survivor purposefully antagonized the killer
for me killers get into the mindset that every game their playing is against a swf..which as we know gives the survivors a big advantage..this leads to tunnelling as this the best strat in comp games..us solo face the consequences as a lot of us are playing for fun and escaping is a bonus but killers on the whole want to win and win big
The Camp/Tunnel issue is a 2 part issue.
Part 1.) Some killers are just gonna do it anyway, because all they care about is the kill ratio.
Nothing can be done about these players.
Part 2.) The other 1/2 of the issue is killers who do it to make up for the gen rush builds brought by many survivors these days, especially those in 4 stack SWF groups. While these groups are not every trial, they are about 1/8 groups that I face. When the killer has to spend 10-20 sec to get into first chase, and then chases for 20-30 sec average, and 2-3 gens pop before they can get first down to a hook, it demoralizes the killer, making them think that they have to get scummy. While I refuse to play in this manner (unless I get clicky-bagged, then my win condition becomes get that clicky-bagger out, and everyone else is free to leave), I admit that I am in the minority among killers.
If more than 1 gen pops in the first 50 seconds of the trial, survivors should not be complaining about a killer "Try Harding", because the killer is just giving what they are receiving. At the same time, if a killer is camp/tunneling at <2 gens done, then they should not complain about survivors gen rushing/bodyblocking/etc.
Toxicity is a 2 way street, and while both sides are guilty of doing it, I call on EVERYONE on both sides to fight against the urge to partake in such behavior. All being toxic does is perpetuate the problem for everyone.
TL;DR: both sides just need to remember this is a game and games are supposed to be fun. DBD is NOT an E-Sport.
For some reason BHVR went from a meta of wanting to deter tunneling through fear of punishment. To visually giving the killer a when and who to tunnel pass. Check for speed decreases, listen to survivor audio, no more dead hard on deep wounds. They all just help the tunneler have cues now. Which is honestly a terrible idea as we see now. Just look at Dead Hard and Unbreakable, they still cause some killers to change an entire action solely for its existence alone, tunneling lost that power.
For not wanting to promote tunneling, most of them are literally countered by literally instantly hitting an unhooked survivor as well. Second Wind being in a weird spot as it both tells the killer you have it and requires a pre-requisite.
As a last point, I just wanted to say, being able to depip is dumb as all hell with how they talk about grades just being a casual thing now. If you want 1 million bp, you gotta make sure every game goes at the very least, in your favor, with a stalemate giving nothing in return. Personally, I’d gladly feel happier having rough games if one bad game didn’t take me back a step to that goal. I can say that is one of my main reasons I feel incentivized to tunnel until Iri 1. Slight tangent there.
because all these problems
I'm seeing so many DC's in the game
I mean a lot more than usual
Crazy that killer main’s have been struggling and not had the advantage for years, and once they do, survivors cant handle it. If you think tunneling is a problem, then you should just have the skill to not get tunneled. Know where your pallets are and dont run to deadzones. Classic case of survivor being able to dish it out, but not take it.
I'm sorry I was just listening to this video and out of the corner of my eye I see the gamer tag 'GranddaddyLongballs'
It’s definitely a major issue and it’s sad seeing the state of the game turning more competitive. I’m always fine if it’s in a competitive scene, kill your friends, custom rules, leagues, making up their own rules, etc. but in a public lobby where you have not a clue what you’re loading into is big issues. Back in 2017 when I started even probably all the way up to 2019 never really ran into this problem. No one was caring or talking about being efficient or optimal. Now that’s basically all you see and it also doesn’t help when Contant creators are coming out with these best efficient playstyle builds, and you literally are facing that all day after a new video was released from someone. Comp DBD is also a big factor as it’s getting more popular and people are doing that playstyle in public games. I would say currently after MMR and kills equal skill, etc. has been the main focus. I literally will get one of these tunneling/camping games one every four games. so basically, I’m literally averaging one ZZZ game every hour of dead by daylight and that percentage is way too high. I remember even two years ago, saying to my community how this was gonna be a problem and get more consistently be an issue. I remember probably running into one of these hard-core tunneling a person who is hooked first at five gens maybe once every 3-4 months in 2018. Now it’s once every hour. I feel DBD had serious changing issues ever since slingers released in 2020 and don’t get me started with all the new anti-Loopable powers in the hold W meta-on top of all this to. not only are anti-tunnel perks like the DS do nothing, new killers are also getting powers that make windows/ pallets completely useless. If I told my 2017 self I have to pre-drop cow tree pallet in order to survive a few secs and even at that some killers don’t even need to break cow-tree. just wait for power regeneration to eventually get the down by taking a good shot and down me with no chase interaction, I would think I was talking crazy.. What made DBD so good/popular back in the day is pretty much gone and forgotten. we need to make this game back being fun in casual again not caring about the end result and just having a good casual time. People treating it like it’s the next best competitive video game for MLG live streaming, and prizes and sorry it’s not. Good video! Loved it!
From my limited experience, I think Killers should have more incentives to hook as many unique survivors as they can. I never played with old BBQ and Chili but how it used to work seems like an absolutely fantastic reason to go for as many different survivors as possible.
The best way to discourage killers from tunneling is rewarding them when they don't tunnel, maybe pre-nerf pop goes the weasel base kit? Or maybe a base kit teleport similar to freddy's, that is only usable after hooking a survivor? It has to be something that slows down repairs, otherwise it'll always be better to tunnel.
As a 1400hrs+ killer main I rarely camp but do tunnel. Why? Because the game is fundamentally broken. The issue is purely mathematical. Let's take a look:
1) The problem is not the effectiveness of tunneling per se, but the consequences of not tunneling – in the worst case scenario you would need 9 hooks to get the first kill which is insane.
2) Same with camping. It's boring and you get less points, yet sometimes it does the job. Why leave the survivor behind who is about to hit stage 2 and allow him to enjoy Borrowed Time/Off the Record/DS/Adrenaline? If I were playing the Dredge and immediately teleported to the locker near the unhook, would it count as camping/tunneling?
3) "3 gen strategy" is could easily be fixed if the 7th gen appeared in the remote area only after completing the 3rd gen.
All of the problems mentioned in the video come down to 2 basic facts: gens go down too fast + 3 hooks to kill each surv X 4 survs = 12 hooks is insane (realistically 8-9 hooks for only 2k if you don't tunnel and camp).
Camping and tunneling is just as viable and morally just strategy as gen rushing. It just happens that there are 4 times more survs than killers to complain. The game is biased towards survivors unless the killer takes the game hostage by abusing some mechanics.
Sad part is truetalent says survivors needs nerf.
I wish we could see MMR ranges because I really want to know how it varies. In my experience, the new players, and the high MMR are the ones tunneling more than the mid tier.
the current killer problem is that if a killer never camps, never tunnels, and doesn't use oppressive and overpowered perks, they just lose. a 50% killrate is still a loss for killers, so they lose mmr and are placed with survivors who can't counter those strategies. then the killers who do use those strategies are the only ones able to keep their spot at higher mmr, and anything else becomes scarce.
I can 100% say that removing ds made me a lot less careful of who I pick up. I usually don't tunnel, but when I do, I really don't really care about ds and am even surprised when I see it.
Idk if that would be a good idea, but maybe to make it even more punishing to tunnel, we could have a nerfed ds base kit. It wouldn't need to be long, maybe just 2 seconds and in turn, make ds extend that and make it easier to hit the skill-check. I really don't know how balanced that would be though
And yes, I hate that they decide to counter issues like camping with perks. Like, fix the core issue, don't give us a band-aid that is behind a paywall
I'm actually don't encounter tunneling much, but I see so many other people getting camped or tunneled, it's ridicules
I feel like the reason killers feel they have to win no matter the cost, if you lose as killer, 9 times out of 10 survivors will be toxic about it. If even one person makes it to those exit gates you're probably getting tbagged, and the chance only increases the more people survive
Also the game punishes you for not doing well with the pipping system, which I think should be addressed by removing depipping
It has really gotten worse. I kept track of the last games I played and either me or a mate had been hardcore tunneled and camped almost every game. I'm not talking about rushing unhooks or such. Some killers even brag about it in end game chat. As if they wanted to point out how they indeed didn't tunnel you on accident but wanted to make your game miserable. For the first time in over a year of playing I'm thinking about leaving the game.
So you say Games where noone got tunneled gave you and your Team the best Shot of winning and yet say you don't Unserstand why Killers would Play this efficient and tunnel?
How many of the 30% 3gen scenarios did the Killer have the meta build? Or at least Eruption? Holding a 3 Gen in itself is a baseconcept on how to win as killer. The Gen Split at 1 is crucial for the outcome. IT also gives the Game a more tactical approach as survivor, where I try to Not Just do all gens on one Side of the map.
I haven’t played the game in a while so this is almost like a fun house mirror for me lol. It’s definitely a big issue that need to be addressed sooner rather than later. I wonder why killers started tunneling and camping a ton more because like you said it wasn’t common before. When I decide to come back to it though maybe I’ll run my own test to see if it’s happening in lower mmr as frequently
Love the video. I have a lot to say and frankly deleted my last comment in favor of this. The solution, I believe, to camping and tunneling is to change how lives work. Instead of every survivor having 3 lives before death, they would get 2 lives. The last 4 would be in a "community pool." What this would translate to is, if you were tunneled, you would first lose your first life. You cannot lose your last life until all 4 "community lives" are burnt. This would mean a killer would have to hook you 6 times before you died completely. This would also make camping not worth it, as you would have potentially 6 hook stages to go through before you actually died on hook. Sure killers could still tunnel, but they lose the natural benefits from doing so in that they don't get the 3v1 they desperately want early on. The problem with losing a person early is obvious. One person is in chase, one person is being unhooked and healed by the other, and gens come to a crawl. A 3v1 is always in the killers favor while a 4v1 guarantees gen pressure outside of solo que (damn you blendettes!) What this change achieves is it lessens the benefits to tunneling, while still allowing players to be eliminated at a reasonable stage in the game. It's fine to be eliminated at 6 hooks or 7 hooks. It's not fine to be eliminated at 3 hooks.
Why this is important? Because we cannot currently balance killers so long as tunneling is this effective at securing wins. It's unfair to the killers who don't tunnel, as BHVR can't really do serious buffs to killer without insanely buffing tunnelers like in this last patch. The non tunnelers do need buffs to maps and other killer buffs that I find to be okay. The problem is, if you nerf maps and remove pallets while keeping tunneling in the game, you're just promoting it even further. You're just expediting the issue. If survivors have less tiles to play around, why wouldn't the killer tunnel? So removing its incentives I think is the only way to go about making practical changes to killer. Ultimately this game is balanced around hooks. When we have such a high variance of games that range between 3 hook kills and 9 hook kills, of course BHVR will struggle with balance. But if we were to standardize hooks into a 6 through 9 hooks before a kill variance, we'd be a lot closer to being able to balance killers fairly across the board.
Classic survivor main, killer tunnel? buff survivor and nerf killers. What about look killer perks and buff any non tunnel perks istead of nerf them down to the oblivion? What about most of killer perks suck and any % gen progression give no real benefict, i mean 3% every hook or 2% every injured compared to 8% gen reduction and 30 seconds stop to gen progression or 200% gen reduction. Lets look the FULL reason why killer play aggressive to kill and remove a survivor to increase his win ratio istead of kill every single killer perk coz survivor must have fun! Damm
I started playing in mid December and it feels like if I don’t tunnel or bring gen slowdown I get genrushed and bagged it’s been like this scence I started so it’s more compelling to do it it feels like “these guys couldn’t give a flying monkey fuck if I had fun so why should I care” three gens are boring though I can agree with that I was thinking they should have a bounty like system where if I hook someone someone else gets a small reward for hooking them like a small haste buff for a few seconds or something to incintivise not going for one target I also heard ds made the game miserable for killers like they weren’t allowed to hook anyone or something like that
I can’t agree more about Decisive Strike. The 3 second stun they change it to is absolutely insane. They increased the basekit borrowed time from 5 seconds to 10 seconds, but think 3 seconds is enough time to get away from the killer? Huh? Decisive Strike is borderline useless as it is right now.
This game is dying