25 thoughts on “4-Man Slugging Toxicity Discussion – Dead by Daylight”
Personally, situational 4-man slugs is fine, but just hook them after, intentionally going out of your way to slug and bleed out is toxic. (Ps: terrible video Scara kept getting distracted by your adorable cat)
its undeniably, undeniably toxic. for me, killer can even camp me hook, then either i give team a chance and time hanging, or team tries to outsmart him together – that was gameplay. ive never found out anything else more toxic than bleeding people out on the ground, because at that point youre holding 4 people hostage for absolutely no reason. well, for a sick psychopathic reason, because thats the sign of a psychopath from a psychological point of view. so theres not much to debate here.
I don't really care if it's toxic or not, tbh. It's a pretty nuanced thing. Sometimes it happens accidentally. Sometimes it's just a good idea – depending on how many gens are left. Sometimes it's the only counter to a sabo squad. I am down with that. What I hate is when everyone is slugged at 5 gens, no attempt is made to hook anyone – so you're kind of trapped in the match unless you want a DC penalty. For me, the killer usually stands over me nodding. I've definitely had an increase in being slugged in the past couple of months. I won't say it's every game, cause it's not. And usually I still get hooked eventually. So it's not a bog deal to me. But it has been an increase I have noticed, regardless.
Survivors crying as always. Don't put yourself in that situation just like a 3 gen. Hens must be on a low point and in need of clicks to bring up such old BS arguments.
TLDR: 4 man slugging is toxic because it is highly unlikely there will be counterplay for it while picking up and hooking guarantees a chance at counterplay. 4 man slugging is intentionally done in bad faith pretty much always. It is holding the game hostage and should be a bannable offense.
We can run numbers for this. There are currently 4 Survivor perks where you can pick yourself up from dying state: Unbreakable, Soul Guard, Exponential and Plot Twist. There are 16 survivor perks in a game. Let's assume, on average, in a 4 man slug scenario, that there will be 1-2 survivors with these perks for counterplay. So we have about a 1/8 chance or 12.5% to see someone get up without heals. However, in a 4 man slug we can probably assume the killer is just standing over everyone's body in a dogpile, so idk if there's any way to escape this in the first place without some insane outplay, and if you used Plot Twist the killer won't let you get away with it. Yes the mentioned perks can be used together for a better effect like with Soul Guard's endurance, but we will assume base level counterplay (1 perk dedicated) as a control group. Now there are, according to the DBD Wiki, 146 survivor perks. So we have a 4 in 146 chance of a survivor picking anti-slug in the first place. Then I would say Plot Twist isn't really anti-slug because you have to down yourself for it, can't let the killer hit you. So 3 in 146. Then let's talk Soul Guard. You can only pick yourself up with Soul Guard if the killer has a hex. So we have to assume the hex is active in this scenario which is already RNG based. The wiki again says there are 124 Killer perks, and 16 of them are hexes. Let's assume a killer picks only one hex for the build as a control group, giving us ~13% chance of getting to use Soul Guard this way in the first place. Then on top add the RNG for the activation or cleansing of the hex during the match (no real way to calculate this except by running games out of 1000). Then let's talk Exponential, which has the same RNG factor as hexes with Soul Guard. Chances it never got set up in the first place or was pre-emptively snuffed by the Killer or that the slugging happens out of range. So really the only way for a guaranteed anti-slug is Unbreakable. There's a reason it's such a popular perk, actual statistics show this perk is in play much more often than the numbers would say because this perk is the most reliable anti-slug. https://nightlight.gg/perks/Unbreakable says that it is used by 8-10% of survivors so we will use that figure. All of these figures combined mean, quite frankly, that if the killer does a 4 man slug, there is a less than 1% chance of the team having counterplay. On the other hand, picking up and hooking the four survivors guarantees a chance at counterplay with wiggling chances and hook spacing. So, yes it is toxic. It takes the agency of survivors away and makes them completely helpless for 4 minutes as they watch the killer mock them.
I also think there's a difference between four man slugging and slugging for pressure. Four man slugging is cringe and four man slugging into a bleed out just to waste everybody's time is a dick move.
ETA: everyone wants to complain about dcs but then do shit that make people want to dc. Nobody wants to be on the ground not playing the game every single match
If a survivor t-bagging at the exit gate is considered toxic, then yes, slugging all survivors so they have to wait to bleed out is. We gotta stop with all these double standards in this community.
3:24 Nothing to do with matchmaking. There simply isn't enough good players in DBD to begin with and it's impossible to correctly gauge a player's skill in such a unique game. The survivors who care the most about escaping rarely are the strongest of the pack.
it’s just killers abusing a in game mechanic. just like when hatch use to spawn and survivors could just sit on it and wait. and the fixed that to benefit killers. they could easily fix slugging(the slugging and letting u bleed out for 5 mins).
At the end of the day I truly believe this bhvr will never be able to make everyone happy. We are always complaining about everything, slugging, tunneling, gens are too fast, too many second chance perks, I just don't get it. With games like this it's gonna be hard to find a middle ground because everyone wants to either win, or feel fulfilled some way and it's just so hard to even envision because most stuff gets abused.
Just as toxic as the last two survivors hiding for 5 minutes until you are lucky enough to find them. And, honestly, if the game is already over and the killer decides to leave you on the ground then too bad, survivors usually deserve it.
Watch a Scott Jund video about slugging while you bleed out. 👍
The problem is that slugging is way more fun than playing the game normally, you get constant chases and downs every time, feels like you actually have a threat on your hands
My issue is just the time waste. I know that I can do other things while bleeding out on the ground but there are a small handful of killers who just slug and bleed because they want you to suffer. And it's just annoying game after game after game when we could very easily all just go next
Bhvr gave them the tools and they used it Blame the devs not the community if they just simply sit down with their team talk and figure out something they Don't
Personally, situational 4-man slugs is fine, but just hook them after, intentionally going out of your way to slug and bleed out is toxic.
(Ps: terrible video Scara kept getting distracted by your adorable cat)
its undeniably, undeniably toxic.
for me, killer can even camp me hook, then either i give team a chance and time hanging, or team tries to outsmart him together – that was gameplay. ive never found out anything else more toxic than bleeding people out on the ground, because at that point youre holding 4 people hostage for absolutely no reason. well, for a sick psychopathic reason, because thats the sign of a psychopath from a psychological point of view. so theres not much to debate here.
I don't really care if it's toxic or not, tbh. It's a pretty nuanced thing. Sometimes it happens accidentally. Sometimes it's just a good idea – depending on how many gens are left. Sometimes it's the only counter to a sabo squad. I am down with that. What I hate is when everyone is slugged at 5 gens, no attempt is made to hook anyone – so you're kind of trapped in the match unless you want a DC penalty. For me, the killer usually stands over me nodding. I've definitely had an increase in being slugged in the past couple of months. I won't say it's every game, cause it's not. And usually I still get hooked eventually. So it's not a bog deal to me. But it has been an increase I have noticed, regardless.
Its not toxic just annoying as fuck
Twins goes brrr
If you haven't, do a video on the most common form of toxicity in the game: running out the end game collapse at exit gates to t-bag.
Survivors crying as always. Don't put yourself in that situation just like a 3 gen. Hens must be on a low point and in need of clicks to bring up such old BS arguments.
Object of the game for killers is to kill… even if it means leaving you on the ground get over it.
TLDR: 4 man slugging is toxic because it is highly unlikely there will be counterplay for it while picking up and hooking guarantees a chance at counterplay. 4 man slugging is intentionally done in bad faith pretty much always. It is holding the game hostage and should be a bannable offense.
We can run numbers for this. There are currently 4 Survivor perks where you can pick yourself up from dying state: Unbreakable, Soul Guard, Exponential and Plot Twist. There are 16 survivor perks in a game. Let's assume, on average, in a 4 man slug scenario, that there will be 1-2 survivors with these perks for counterplay. So we have about a 1/8 chance or 12.5% to see someone get up without heals. However, in a 4 man slug we can probably assume the killer is just standing over everyone's body in a dogpile, so idk if there's any way to escape this in the first place without some insane outplay, and if you used Plot Twist the killer won't let you get away with it. Yes the mentioned perks can be used together for a better effect like with Soul Guard's endurance, but we will assume base level counterplay (1 perk dedicated) as a control group.
Now there are, according to the DBD Wiki, 146 survivor perks. So we have a 4 in 146 chance of a survivor picking anti-slug in the first place. Then I would say Plot Twist isn't really anti-slug because you have to down yourself for it, can't let the killer hit you. So 3 in 146. Then let's talk Soul Guard. You can only pick yourself up with Soul Guard if the killer has a hex. So we have to assume the hex is active in this scenario which is already RNG based. The wiki again says there are 124 Killer perks, and 16 of them are hexes. Let's assume a killer picks only one hex for the build as a control group, giving us ~13% chance of getting to use Soul Guard this way in the first place. Then on top add the RNG for the activation or cleansing of the hex during the match (no real way to calculate this except by running games out of 1000). Then let's talk Exponential, which has the same RNG factor as hexes with Soul Guard. Chances it never got set up in the first place or was pre-emptively snuffed by the Killer or that the slugging happens out of range. So really the only way for a guaranteed anti-slug is Unbreakable. There's a reason it's such a popular perk, actual statistics show this perk is in play much more often than the numbers would say because this perk is the most reliable anti-slug. https://nightlight.gg/perks/Unbreakable says that it is used by 8-10% of survivors so we will use that figure.
All of these figures combined mean, quite frankly, that if the killer does a 4 man slug, there is a less than 1% chance of the team having counterplay. On the other hand, picking up and hooking the four survivors guarantees a chance at counterplay with wiggling chances and hook spacing. So, yes it is toxic. It takes the agency of survivors away and makes them completely helpless for 4 minutes as they watch the killer mock them.
I dont listen to Scott because Im watching his cat playing
I also think there's a difference between four man slugging and slugging for pressure. Four man slugging is cringe and four man slugging into a bleed out just to waste everybody's time is a dick move.
ETA: everyone wants to complain about dcs but then do shit that make people want to dc. Nobody wants to be on the ground not playing the game every single match
If a survivor t-bagging at the exit gate is considered toxic, then yes, slugging all survivors so they have to wait to bleed out is. We gotta stop with all these double standards in this community.
wHY CouLD THiS bE toXiC If ThE gAMe aNd DeVS ThEMselvEs aLloW Me d0 It??⁉😜🥴
3:24 Nothing to do with matchmaking. There simply isn't enough good players in DBD to begin with and it's impossible to correctly gauge a player's skill in such a unique game. The survivors who care the most about escaping rarely are the strongest of the pack.
it’s just killers abusing a in game mechanic. just like when hatch use to spawn and survivors could just sit on it and wait. and the fixed that to benefit killers. they could easily fix slugging(the slugging and letting u bleed out for 5 mins).
At the end of the day I truly believe this bhvr will never be able to make everyone happy. We are always complaining about everything, slugging, tunneling, gens are too fast, too many second chance perks, I just don't get it. With games like this it's gonna be hard to find a middle ground because everyone wants to either win, or feel fulfilled some way and it's just so hard to even envision because most stuff gets abused.
Just as toxic as the last two survivors hiding for 5 minutes until you are lucky enough to find them. And, honestly, if the game is already over and the killer decides to leave you on the ground then too bad, survivors usually deserve it.
Watch a Scott Jund video about slugging while you bleed out. 👍
The problem is that slugging is way more fun than playing the game normally, you get constant chases and downs every time, feels like you actually have a threat on your hands
My issue is just the time waste. I know that I can do other things while bleeding out on the ground but there are a small handful of killers who just slug and bleed because they want you to suffer. And it's just annoying game after game after game when we could very easily all just go next
You’re like the Jesse Eisenberg of dbd news to me and i really appreciate it thank you for your videos
The strength of a strategy does not determine toxicity???
Bhvr gave them the tools and they used it Blame the devs not the community if they just simply sit down with their team talk and figure out something they Don't
to survivors everything killers do is toxic
In my opinion ever since the yellow mori became basekit slugging seems to be even more popular
It's fun slugging with Twins