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Read more Dead by Daylight ➜ https://deadbydaylight.mgn.tv
http://www.twitch.tv/ScottJund
https://discord.gg/TheBreaderhood
source
Hey Scott, guys here.
Having to pick perks to counter gens and not focus on other powers is annoying
Game mode without Gens. No need for slowdown, just focus on chases. "but that's just Hide & Seek" yeah but it will be the best Hide & Seek game we'll have, just put a time limit on, whoever is alive wins, if everyone is dead killer wins. Without gen pressure Survivors are free to do rescues, meaning tunneling and camping is no longer an issue, you no longer have to worry about gens for escaping, just Survive for X amount of time. "Blendettes will be OP" no they won't, if they are hidding then that means the killer only has to chase 3 people. Automatically deactivate any Perk that has anything to do with Gens and all those perks still exist but are not available in this game mode. Without Gen pressure, killers can spend more time chasing thus the Maps become less problematic aswell. "Everyone will go into Lockers" there's Iron Maiden for that. " If survivors are all free from gens that means they can make Flashlight saves easier", there's Lightborn and theres game sense, if you see one or multiple Flashlight's then maybe check around before picking someone up, there's also Infectious Fright to give you information about Survivors around you when you down someone. This even helps against Spirit, a healthy Survivor can interviene and try to confuse Spirit if she's phasing after an injured Survivor, crossing their path giving more scratch marks to create doubt, introduce a new sound or breathing to confuse Spirit.
I honestly think buffing base gen kick regression would really help. I've also heard the idea of making ruin base but I disagree with that. I think if they wanted to have the current regular gen regression as a sort of mini ruin base that would be okay.
Idk, if you added another perk slot I’d be able to add Dead Hard to my Lithe + Sprint Burst build and maybe that’d be too strong
Honestly if they were to randomly categorize perks into "game delay" and not "game delay" and survivors having "exhaustion" and "not exhaustion" i think maybe we could give both players an extra slot that you can only put game delay/exhasution perks in, and maybe limit how many you can put in the main 4 slots.
I've always liked the HotS's team approach to situations like these: when they noticed that the "big data" shows a certain Hero being built through a particular build path players of that Hero always took 1 specific talent, they would promptly rework that Hero's build path and include the overpresent "thing" into base kit.
While I do understand that game delay exhaustion perks are a bandaid to maps being shite, reworking maps (or the whole game) is an… Arduous task at the very least.
So fuck it – give every Killer a "game delay" perk slot, where only things like Ruin, Pop, Corrupt… Surge?… Can fit, and give Survivors the same for Exhaustion perks.
At least experiment with that. Perhaps nerf some of the perks, since they WILL be omnipresent with this change, maybe make it so stacking multiple perks weakens others of the same category.
I have the Feeling Nothing so going to chance about that ngl
There’s a difference between saying the game is generally balanced around the existence of game delay perks, and claiming that a build like Ruin Pop Sloppy is “required”, even after playing the game for over 5000 hours.
I’m assuming that’s your implicit claim since you typically run at least 2/3 of those perks every game. If your aim is to make most of your games absolute cakewalks then fair enough, that’s the way to do it. But it’s certainly not “required” in the vast majority of public queue games.
I don’t play DBD much anymore, but when I played regularly I would estimate I maintained an 85-90% winrate across every killer in the game (this was pre-Twins) using 0 slowdown. Either Corrupt or Sloppy if I was feeling spicy, and of those 10-15% of losses, I would say at least half were still winnable games that were my fault. I had 2500 hours.
I believe slowdown perks should be categorised as such, and killers should be restricted to 1 in public games. Lift this restriction in KYF so competitive frogs can do what they want, but over-reliance on slowdown is unhealthy for the game and breeds bad killer players.
increase miss skill check penalty from 10% to 20%.
I think a way to fix it is just have more going on in the map that forces survivors to not just work on gens the whole time
Gen slowdown perks can just be rephrased as survivor objective slowdown perks. No matter how long it would take to complete a gen, any perk that directly hinders the survivor's objective (gens) is going to be meta.
Exhaustion perks are kinda similar (takes longer to down a survivor = takes longer to get hooks = takes longer to get killer objective completed). Not quite the same, because hook states don't quite translate to gens, in my opinion. Only when a survivor dies is it more comparable (completely out of the game, cannot be undone, just like a repaired generator).
If the game needs to be changed so it’s more flexible then all the perks in the game would need huge buffs, nerfs, and reworks. Every bad perk would have to be brought up in some way to all other perks. All god tier perks would have to be way more niche or worse to make a new meta entirely.
If a huge chunk of perks got changed on both sides then the game would be fine. The fundamentals of the game as-is is fine, but perks make a lot of the balance of the game tilt in one very unfun play style.
So if I was to change the game, I would change the game. Just see what happens. Let the chaos happen. Then record what has happened over a month then find a middle point of balance. Work on it more form there. And if the same problem happens? Do it all over again.
Scott jund
If we want more killer build options by decreasing gen speed while not further incentivising the use of game delay perks, why can’t we just simply drastically decrease gen speed AND completely delete all the game delay perks? Like if we’re gonna add the complete rat liver or the complete windstorm to the base-kits of demo or wraith, wouldn’t it be obvious that rat liver and windstorm should be deleted as add-ons, or else people are still gonna use them on top of the buffed base-kits? So how is this different from adding in-built game delay by decreasing gen speed? Or am I missing something important?
What killer in your opinion, is the most balanced.
It would be nice if game delay was something that was unique to killers. For instance Pig has her boxes. trapper has teritory – if they focus on making those aspects a bit more all encompassing on each killer then it's not such a problem.
Huntress could get a hatchet addon which allows for hatchets to explode and do AoE damage to survivors near where it breaks which would let her keep map pressure better if she's good at the game. They would then have an extra thing to worry about.
Demos portals could have a feature added where survivors benefit from seeking out and clensing them a little more so that people aren't just sat on gens the whole time, they have an extra thing to worry about.
Doesn't have to be every killer, but having a little extra to worry about that was unique to each killer could be a solution and would make the game a little more interesting
I would also like to add that exposure perks aren't really fun for the survivors or make the game interesting in any specific way. They usually rely on luck based on totem spawns and can sometimes give the killer a free win when they didn't deserve it. I'm rank 1 with survivor and killer and i never ever play with them as they simply aren't fun. Devour hope, haunted grounds and noed are all just different names for a crutch.
I think side missions or tasks could solve the issue not necessarily slowing the game down much longer but enough like finding a gear to an exit gate hidden in the map
Buffing base kit gen kicking would probably help, like making kicked gens regress faster or have them lose a small chunk of progress on a normal kick. Gen kicking should be the default game delay but the way it works right now its almost never worth it to do.
One idea that i had was some how tying some sorta of natural game delay to hooking survivors, i.e hooking a survivor causes gens to regress 5% automatically and they start to lose gen progress. Granted this runs into the issue regarding becoming unable to use pop and power creeping perks like surge or nemesis' new perk, but It was the only way that I though they could do it with out changing the game to much.
It's not possibile to fix that without huge perks or mechanic rework. The only thing that could be done is to make gens go faster, reduce the number of pallets on every map but make all of them "unsafe" in the sense that the survivor can play around them until they get outplayed. In that way you have the game last maybe less than now because gens go faster, but it's easier to burn the pallets a little more quickly if you're a good killer and you reach an ideal end game status soon enough. Idk if it's clear what I mean or not.
How about a separate playlist where perks that slow down the game from Dying Light to Pop and Survivors don't have access to exhaustion perks.
I run four tracking perks on Nurse and tend to do alright. I feel like I’m giving something up when I run slowdown perks.
I think a really simple change would be if a survivor is injured and atleast 3 gens havent been completed they can't work on gens exclusively. so basically at 2 gens left survivors can gain hope/confidence or something name it whatever you want and can then work on gens even when injured if there are only 2 gens left to complete. If there are 5/4/3 gens left they can't work on gens unless fully healed, and hell if that's too strong then at 3 gens left survivors gain a temporary increase in heal speed say 10%
If BHVR just 4Heads some general map and spawn changes (shrink the maps, make survivors spawn together, eliminate connected god loop areas) they could really look at reworking Pop, Ruin, etc. into completely different perks. I don't think it's an inconceivable amount of work to do that, honestly. They modeled the entirety of goddamn Racoon City Police Department in a matter of a couple months. General, straightforward changes to existing assets could be time consuming but not at all challenging.
3:40 – Buddy walks in
Well i think they should buff regressing gens, aka kicking them, i feel kicking gens without pop sucks, and maybe nerfing pop but reverting the timer back to a minute to keep the perk good, like maybe if u kick a gen normally its 5 percent regression automatically and pop is reduced to 20% instead of 25, this would buff overcharge as well cause overcharge can now do 10% in total a small rework. Surge would ignore the five since the perk does it at range and not actually the killer itself, to make surge worth a slot, make powers activate the perk like blights rush, billy saw. infectious fright treatment but for gens. Survailance would be kinda good by itself so maybe it replaces tinker for certain builds
#addA5thPerkSlot
Yeah, slowdown perks would need nerfs, while general regression would need buffs.
Meanwhile basically every not-slowdown-perk needs buffs to compensate.
But I mean, in their perk rework series the devs didn't even mention monstrous shrine.
So I'm not expecting anything to happen here.
Make pop a base game feature 25 or 30 percent gen regression on kick
Pop the perk now has 8 tokens that regress 75% on one kick
What about an extremely weak version of ruin, like for example a quarter of the regression of what ruin 1 provides, being basekit. Kicking the gen ramps that regression up to like 1.5x the normal kick regression until its touched
Maybe add a 5th perk but only if that perk is on that killer/survivor, itd make survivors more than just a skin, and killers would feel a little more unique I mean they have their power but this would be a cherry on top
Also just for fun I think it would be funny if the devs did a separate que where everyone has every perk I dunno tho but I think itd be fun
Without changing anything about how addons work specifically;
the devs could add a new objective at the end of the game during the endgame collapse which would now happen as soon as the last gen is popped which spawns 2 total batteries in any chests on the map that’s survivors need to find and place into the gates before they can power them up.
This would allow for a new survivor / shared perk that could allow survivors within 12-16-20m range to see the battery(ies).
Not saying it’s a good idea but it’s an idea without changing the current set up and would potentially add some value to end game perks on both sides.
Give killers another perk slot that can be used exclusively for slowdown perks which would allow for only one per build unless you want more than one slowdown perk in which case your total perk slots become 4. Survivors have 16 perks, why not give killer one more
Kicking a gen should regress it by 5% percent instantly and base regress speed should be higher say 125% better than ruin 1 worse than 2. Numbers are random but something like that could help. Sure they would have to nerf pop and ruin
Remove hex ruin as a perk and have it as a base totem spawn. It would be unaffected by undying but it slows the game down at the start, allows survivors to cleanse it while opening the opportunity to diverse builds on killer natural slowdown also fix spawns so survivors start grouped up and have to spread out.
Why don't they just have an extra slot for one exhaustion only perk and one gen slow down only perk
Who cares about gen speeds when there's a cat in the background
Yooo SCOTT WHY DID YOU HAVE TO CLIP MY SWF LIKE THAT HAHA. I play with those 4 sometimes
I mean, like you said in the previous video, survivor spawns are bullshit. If there wasn't a threat every game of losing 3 gens right off the bat, with absolutely no control over it, then people are more inclined to run slow down perks. I think actually reworking a lot of perks and shifting the meta around would actually help and keep the game interesting, rather than like, small game getting a rework years later to being a more fun and versatile perk (rather than Fuck you trapper and hag, and noed)
If there were better options than just slowdown perks, such as a meta with more emphasis on tracking (coming with the introduction of new perks and reworks) than all in all slowdown perks WILL see less use and the game will have more variety.
I though about this too. Having 1 extra perk slot for survivors and killers would make the game more fun and chaotic in some sense. More builds would come up and more variety of gameplay.
I think if you rework the game to have simply slower gen times and you do something to actually make the game more fun to play overall, it doesn't matter as much that games take longer. If you have more opportunities to test your skill or to be immersed in the unique experience of the game, and generally have more fun in every match anyways, the length can be increased some amount. As to how to promote a more fun way of playing from both sides, that's a bit difficult. One idea is one of yours, survivors can go find parts for generators. Maybe you can even have multiple kinds of parts that you can collect and install on a gen. You could implement a baseline ruin into the game, and then add a part that lets you prevent a gen from regressing (unless they have ruin, kicked the gen, used surge, etc…). You could have parts that prevent some percentage of regression from happening (pop goes from 25 to 15 for example). You could have parts that double repair speed, or at least increase it by 1.5 times. It could be cool to have more kinds of mini-games for these parts so it's not just hold left click and press space, more interesting. There should be more things that survivors can do each match that they don't have to do, but if they spend time doing it, it can help them in the long run (spend time now, make the game longer but also give them a better chance of winning).
Another way you can go about giving survivors something to do is breakable walls (I think you talked about this as well). Instead of having breakable walls as they are now, survivors should have had to build these walls, and use their time to impede on the killer in some meaningful way. But we can take that a step further. With leon and jill constructing gen explosives and flashbangs, why not have stuff like that? Tripwire at a door to flash the killer for example. Spend time to build that, and now you know if you loop a killer here, you can flash them for a brief time. Unvaultable windows. Survivors can build these windows to prevent killers from vaulting them unless they break it.
these are just ideas mostly to increase the fun of the game. Killers already have a lot on their plate to try to kill four survivors and prevent the gens, so giving them more to do isn't necessary. But survivors don't have much to do. You do gen, or run from killer and help teammates, and that gen part is really boring. If survivors have more gameplay elements they can participate in for benefits throughout the match, that could be more fun and more satisfying to plan out a looping route because you took the time to build stuff. And, with survivors going out to do more things, it's riskier cuz the killer can find them, and it gives a defacto gen speed nerf because less people are on gens at a time.
I don't know if this is the best solution, but at the very least, it could be more interesting than what we have and it might have positive results. Maybe with how survivors encounter killers more often for parts slow down perks aren't as necessary because focusing on ending chases would be gen defense in a way, so there could be an argument for using more chase perks instead (and how parts could counter slowdown a bit).
First and foremost, I would try to generally buff weaker perks, as a first step to solve this problem. ~50% of all perks in the game are basically unused because they are absolute garbage. Saying that game-delay perks are mandatory is painting an incomplete picture. They are mandatory because the alternatives are trash. If we try to nerf/rebalance game-delay perks, we would end up with even fewer perks that are usable. Therefore, we have to buff other perks first, and THEN take a look at game-delay.
Well tbh the devs need to be looking at the game progress to go faster and not slower. If the match goes faster than 10 minutes it's really just dragging, there's not enough content in a map to explore or utilize for longer times. Essentially killers should just move 1-3% faster across the board and the maps need to be tightened down or gen/survivor spawns to be within a reasonable distance. Some of this comes down to quickly understanding the rng, where you can defend and hold a few gens and where you need to make pressure and force survivors to drop pallets. Killers will just afk chase me into an area with completed gens and every pallet up just because they got a hit on me 20 seconds ago and not realize that 3 survivors have probably gotten done screwing around opening chests and totems to finally do the last gens which takes like 6 minutes on average due to the Potato Virus that has ravaged the survivor population.
My biggest problem with delay perks (and new perks in general tbh) is just how restrictive they are. For example surge would probably replace ruin for me, but I play oni and blight and billy so can’t use that perk to its maximum potential because I’m playing a killer at benefits from non basic attacks. Even perks like eruption have so much set up time and the activation being downs with basic attacks mean more often then not you’re gonna accidentally set it off early and you’ll have to live with the 90 second cooldown. Even perks like hysteria which asks you to injure the first few survivors with your power (legion is the most effective at this) and play like an m1 killer on the third or fourth guy and that’s assuming you’re playing legion, every other killer is going to struggle or like with eruption for example will set it off on accident and only 2 people will be effected. And the fact that most game delay perks do what ruin does but worse and don’t even synergize with each other. What if surge set off oppression. What if surge helped set up eruption? These would be cool ideas but we can’t have any of it because of unnecessary restrictions.
actually i would love if they had a 5th perk slot for just slow down perks
and if survivors had a extra slot just for exhaustion perks but they changed it to where like you can only equip one slowdown and one exhaustion