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Discussing what I believe to be the core to all other problems that Dead by Daylight faces. This is what causes the massive difference in opinions in the game, and where a lot of the arguments and frustrations stem from. Let me know your thoughts!
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I hate how I. Safety pip as killer. I play spirit and I’m not good at all. I’m rank one. And I hate it, I get 1-2 kills
I think the problem is meg, definitely Meg -.-
You are god damn right
While I agree about matchmaking I think there is another huge issue with the game and it's not using the outstanding tool called PTB. Imagine if each month 1-2 Fog Whisperers (and by extension their communities) had a chance to point out things they want to change since they believe it would make the game better and run it in PTB. If idea is trash it will be dumped and no other Fog Whisperer will propose it again, however if idea is good then devs could work to actually implement it into the game (since I'd think PTB testing would never assign graphic/animators/designers to work and would use only basic shapes like a gray cube, it would be just proof of concept). The game would develop so quickly and solve all the issues at incredible pace while bringing communities to work together. The tool already exists, but it's never really used.
I’m glad you also agree the pin point accurate match making could be horrid. Looking at people like dowesy would be so concerning.
I love this game, but I tried to play with some friends the other day and just gave up after waiting for almost half an hour for a 3-man. Broke my heart.
I am curious to see how the community would separate over having a "Ranked" mode (like most competitive games) and a "Quick Play" or like a free mode that didn't award a rank. I know a lot of comp and skilled players WANT the competition and would likely really enjoy a ranked mode where typically the only people you'll find are looking for that same challenge. Where as in a quick play you would have the general (usually casual) population that just want to chill and have fun. I do agree with what you've said in the past however, that you won't be able to keep trolls and the really skilled from using quick play. But I think the skill gap would close a lot because a skilled player would likely get bored in casual matches quick. Just some food for thought.
The safety pip is a big issue for match making. It basically allows people's rank to inflate, so that the massive range of rank 1's happen. There is no strict win/lose draw condition and most matches end with a net gain of pips overall. E.g. the killer will get like a 3k with hatch and get 1 pip, if like 4 gens get done and plenty of hooking, unlocking and healing happens, then the survivors are guaranteed almost guaranteed a safety pip and probably one or two will get a pip. The net gain of pips means that everyone just ends up getting shifted up the ranks.
I think there needs to be a harder win/lose/draw condition to stop the whole rank inflation thing until MMR comes into place. And for MMR with sweatfests and long queue times they should probably make a decent sized band of MMR that you can play against, with the band being wider the longer a queue goes in, so that you don't get shit like dowsey waiting 2 hours for a twins match.
rank system is a bigger problem than you would think
as a survivor main I play tons of solo where I get farmed or just left to die on first hook and when the game ends I derank! how is that fair? there should be a penalty towards people leaving you to die on first hook when they are simply not doing anything but crouching in corners; the older system is a bit more fair towards killer to be honest bbut terrible for survivors because it takes way longer for a survivor to reach rank 1 than for a killer to reach rank 1! especially when you have all of those neas crouching around
I'm none too familiar with matchmaking systems across the entire range of games that have both a competitive and non-competitive scene to them, but it almost always feels like DBD is supposed to be some sort of competitive playing field at all times, even for those who have just entered the game and want to understand things and learn it before focusing on growing and honing their skills ( i.e. me who has only played 3 games resulting in two 4 man escapes and one 4-K ). I personally like to think that to some degree, playtime does equal skill, but it also has to tie in with game history and how one player has fared during their playtime.
I don't wanna be matched with someone who dropped down to rank 20 while in the past they managed to climb up to rank 4 or 5 but just had rank reset slam them down to rock bottom because they hadn't touched the game in months. On one hand it feels unfair and unfun to play against, literally being looped for a gen and a half before I realize that I wasted my entire chance of winning by trying to chase down one survivor, but on the other hand it gives me the opportunity to grow and learn how to handle the situation at hand since I am new to the game.
I'm a bit back n forth on this argument, even using myself as an example, but it's like I said in the beginning; I don't know enough about matchmaking to pick a side and make a concrete argument against one thing or another. However from what I understand of the examples shown in the video, Rank 1 being such a large swath of players really isn't the greatest thing to have. Yes there are examples of better kinds of matchmaking for PvP systems for many different games, yes there are also examples of worse kinds of matchmaking, but there are groups within groups within groups that all break up how a specific rank is supposed to play versus how that specific rank actually plays (i.e. gold rank in Overwatch, Silver II in CS:GO).
Maybe splitting up the ranks could create for better diversity? Instead of just Rank 1 make it Rank 1E through 1A, and purple ranks could be split C through A, but all others below that just stay as they are.. I dunno, something, anything, to make diversity a bit clearer. Just my thoughts…
strict MMR is a terrible idea. DBD is a casual game that needs looser matchmaking, I think that although sometimes bad players are in rank 1, I think that would still be much better than the top players always playing the top players, as that would not be fun to sweat every single magch
I would like to give my piece towards this discussion.
First of all, at the very beggining you mentioned the two issues, that finding games takes too long, and the result of players it finds are terrible, these two are very conteractive issues, if you fix one, the other will get worse. If mm only looks for people in the same colour, it will take longer. If mm is set to find games faster, the accuracy will inevitably suffer.
However, you did say that it doesn't even matter because the ranks don' reflect skill levels. That is definitelly an issue, but i think there's more to it than just accuracy of the matchmaking, and that's the player count. You see if there isn't enough players active at any given time, you can't fix the matchmaking. I don't know if dbd suffers from this effect, but since you started comparing dbd mm to that of LoL or Overwatch, the number of players active at any given time is in entirelly different (according to quick google search, so potentially flawed information dbd has below 100k active players at any time, overwatch has about 700k and LoL has several millions). In dbd these numbers are even more significant, as you can not use any form of "fill" mechanic, in LOL if not enough players are signing for supports, you can fill some people who don' want that role but have to play it. In dbd, if there are too many survivors and not enough killers looking for a game, that's just it. You have to wait. Survivor teams are also quite difficult, 4 is a very weird number, there are very few combinations on how to match survivor groups together, as opposed to 5 member teams in other games, so i believe that has some tiny, but still significant impact, so bhvr has to come up with a unique solution, because quick fixed that saved other games won't quite work because of these numbers, in my oppinion.
Lastly, i want to give my oppionion about the statistics, as it's kind of in my field of study and it's interesting to think about. But the actual statistics are definitelly, without a doubt, flawed by the ranking system. It is a completelly different situation of how a 5000hours billy main plays against a group of 4 5000 hours survivors, entirelly different how this billy would play against 4 survivors who have total of 500 hours all together, how a 500 hours, kind of weak rank1 killer would play against each of these groups of survivors. These four scenarios NEED to be distinguished from one anouther and the statistics need to be weighted by these circumstances when making the final numbers of what the stats actually say. Just looking at the rates (hookrate, hitrate, killrate, etc) is certainly not a realistic look.
That's not all, once these data are gather and weighted, comes a decision on what part of the game to focus on. To give a concrete example, in LOL lot of champions feel weak, because if they were made any stronged they would destroy the competitive play in hands of ultra experienced professionals, so they are weak, and average player can not utilize them. On the other hand some champions feel insanelly strong in average or low-rank games, but they are literally never picked in professional play because that pick alone would lose the game. I think good example is billy, lot of people complain that he's really weak, and there have been some severe nerfs to him. Yet even now, in hands of a good player he can destroy lobby of even decently experienced players. But inexperienced killer, even going against equally inexperienced survivors (I'm still talking about what Tofu called the weak rank1 type of inexperienced), might struggle really really hard. So there needs to be a decision on how to balance the characters, and perks and everything, whether it's to make it more fun for the average casual gamer, and let the super strong players find their own way through the struggle, or vice versa.
For the clarity of the statistics, i think LOL has the perfect answer for this one, champion mastery. In LoL whenever you play a champion you gain mastery points, and you need to perform especcially well with that champion, and invest some currency to gain high mastery levels. Once somebody has 4 million mastery points, you know that this person has mastered that champion in every way. If dbd has something like that, all of a sudden you have a very easy way to tell whether a killer is overperforming, or whether that's just few people who have 5000+ hours and half of that time is only on that killer, while the average player still underperforms, whilest also taking into account the lobbies themselves (4 scenarios i mentioned earlier). I think this "mastery" concept could work well on killers, with survivors it's a different thing, because each survivor character basically plays out the exact same way any other survivor character would with the same perks (again, this is ambiguity of dbd being an entirely different concept from most other games on the market, so they need unique solutions tailored for this game).
So this is my piece, i think it's very important that we as a community of the game provide more than just a gibberish complains for the devs, because you can't really make improvements based on that. Whilst the entirety of dbd player base will never agree on what the perfect spot for the game is, from design and balance perspective, constructive feedback and meaningful discussions are I think the best way to provide devs with information on what the player base desires in the game, and makes it easier for them to figure out how to implement that.
Matchmaking is all over the place. Did a daily with a level 2 Ghostface with 3 baby survivor and one with a bit over 600 hours. last game i got a game with 3 decent purple ranks and one rank 1 1.3k hour survivor… i have 240 hours total with around 10hr in the last month so yeah its stupid
Two types of games to choose, one for sweat and one for fun
Honestly the reason why so many of these people are rank 1 when they should be rank 10 is because of SWF.
anybody else remember the gameplay in the background from a few months ago?
I hit rank 1 on survivor last month, and rank 1 on killer last week and I totally agree with you. I still feel like I'm hot garbo at this game with so much more to learn, but according to the ranking system I'm a top level player. It's insane.
Ranks are bs anyway, we introduced a friend of ours to DBD a few months ago, she doesn’t look behind,doesn’t have an idea what looping is, doesn’t know what killers powers do, for perks the same for both survivor and killer and she is rank 7 now. They should make the matchmaking so that u face people who have played a similar amount of hours. U can get to rank 1 easily if u play 8-10 games daily for a few weeks, doesn’t matter what u do
I think before the matchmaking system could be adjusted, there should be implemented a clear definition of a victory to go off of.
There are games where you can quickly kill 4 survivors but lose rank, and games where the game takes a long time and the killer gets no kills but still gains at least a black pip.
I just don't see how the matchmaking system can work if the victory conditions are this obtuse.
I completely agree tofu match making is 100% the problem