You need to count hooks AND kills for a killer I believe. For example, you count each kill but its value changes depending on how many times the survivor was hooked to get that kill. Then a survivor that is hooked once and gets camped to death will give less rating points than a survivor that was hooked all 3 times without proximity to hook penalty, with hooks on other survivors, etc. I think there's genuinely too much work and finesse needed to make an actual good skill system for these kind of devs to even consider 🙁
Uh so let me get this straight. Mmr is basically generalized to all survivors despite only one survivor carrying the game. So it shouldn't do that… Let me ask you something and I may be wrong so correct me. Let's say hypothetically that your playing killer and you have 2 survivors Which are cracked and the other 2 are stupid. You kill the smart survivors but the dumb ones get away because they got Carried. Now they get the mmr that the pro survivors earned instead of losing mmr. Dosent that mean they get put with even smarter killers and eventually if their lucky even smarter killers? Wouldn't that mean they get punished for doing nothing in a sense because they get harder killers every time?as a killer that's excellent for me but if I'm a survivor that's a pain in the ass. That would also mean that the pros would get out with dumber/bad survivors/killers if they lose. Ohhh. That's why. It should be straight up removed than. Theirs no point in having a system that rewards bad plays over good plays because even if it works to some degree it really doesn't compensate for the loss. Wait but dosent that mean it's still like the old days kind of? Because you'll get A mixed bag instead consistently cracked survivors if your cracked? I mean if dumb survivors escape even though they didn't earn it dosent that mean each mach is a mixed bag of skill? So Essentially they added a sbmm system that dosent work at all and changed nothing? Am I missing something????? Am I wrong???
We should be careful when constructing an MMR system around hooks, as it may promote more stealthy gameplay styles or "benched" survivors. Still in most games, including DBD is measured by greed and tactical precision: the greed to go for risky plays and the tactical precision to pull them off and get away with the greed. And so, I propose an MMR system wherein players gain MMR for triggering certain score events, and lose MMR in certain game states. The point is that while a survivor should still lose MMR for being eliminated and a killer's MMR should go down for allowing a survivor to escape, their other actions in the match should offset that loss. Here are some examples:
-Survivors gain MMR for triggering "Rescue" score events, excluding Bear Traps. -Survivors gain MMR for triggering "Repairs," or for being in chase when a teammate triggers "Repairs." -All Survivors lose MMR if the killer triggers "Sacrifice."
-Killers gain MMR for triggering "Hooked" -Killers gain MMR for triggering "Hit" -Killers lose MMR when a survivor triggers "Survived," except when paired with "Hatch Escape."
This MMR system is incredibly simple to wrap one's head around, and allows for a much greater expression of skill in SBMM without (hopefully) giving an unfair advantage to any one playstyle. All that would be left is determining values.
I cant believe survivor mains are this dense. Are you really gonna blame lower killer numbers on MMR and continue to blind yourselves of the truth that killer mains have been trying to say since MMR released. I'm pretty sure killers know why killer numbers are lower. THEY QUIT PLAYING DBD BECAUSE OF ENTITLEMENT!! When MMR first changed it didn't reflect immediately because the reason wasn't MMR. When MMR released there were other changes made THAT KILLER MAINS KEPT POINTING OUT!! Namely, bringing in circle of healing AT THE SAME TIME AS nerfing killers (Spirit and Deathslinger just to name a few) AND AT THE SAME TIME buffing the hell out of survivor perks. Pinhead had just released and seemed rather powerful and hopeful, but then, he got nerfed in both the next 2 updates and survivor perks got buffed more! You may not agree, but, put your survivor opinions aside, put yourselves into killer main shoes, and pay attention!! Killers complained massively about this, saying that BHVR was favoring survivors. All they received in return was mockery and scorn from the survivor community. Killer mains repeatedly told survivor mains (myself included) that they were gonna lose killer mains and there wouldn't be enough killers left for the game to properly function and survivors were gonna be forced to play killer just to play. That is now a very real thing and is reflecting in both matchmaking and killer numbers. THIS EVEN GOT THE ATTENTION OF BHVR and was addressed both to and by Matthew Cote. He said that killers were saying the game was survivor sided and told killer mains that if they didn't like it to go play something else, AND THEY DID!! The reason there isn't enough killers is because they quit playing DBD like Matthew Cote so pridefully told them to do (myself included). Now survivor mains are starting to see this effecting the game and refuse to admit it and instead blame it on MMR. Open your eyes, even @Scott Jund said that when MMR released that this didn't happen right away. I guarantee you can trace the timing of the change in matchmaking occurred when Matthew Cote was cocky enough to tell killers to play something else. I know SEVERAL killers that quit when Matt made that statement (myself included). But dont listen to me, I'm just a killer main, keep blaming your lack of killers on MMR and don't listen to what the killers themselves are saying if you choose, stay in your survivor echo chamber and watch DBD die in your pride. This includes you Scott Jund. I hope you actually address my comment on your video, because DBD needs it!! This isn't about MMR accuracy at all, this is the effect of entitlement.
That is one of the biggest issues. No one wants to play killer. When i queue as killer it is an instant match find. When I am as survivor my queue is so long. Playing killer for casual players is frustrating and feels survivor sided. When In reality if you play killer a lot it is actually pretty balanced and the killer has a strong chance.
Dude please tell me this is satire. You just hired people to say this, honestly good work I almost believed it. Even got actors that look exactly like the devs. I will continue to live this delusion.
I think the problem can be boiled down to the fact that dbd is not a win/lose game. You don’t really win or lose. You either played a good game and racked up points, or you played a bad game and ended up with little to nothing. I think the best thing to do would be to make it a ranked game again and tweak the fuck out of the ranking system/how pips are earned. Does this not seem like the most logical option? Why did they ever decide, “let’s make rank worthless and create a black and white mmr system that isn’t suitable for this game”? Like wtf.
I love it when they do these QnAs and they’re answers are always “We not gonna talk about it” or “You don’t know anything, and everything we do is right”
It took a long time to join a game as survivor before MMR too. I think killers are just leaving or moving over to survivor because killer isn't fun. Probably because MMR doesn't consider swf so at night and on weekends people play less killer because there are more swfs and it stops being fun.
What's amazing is that if we all just agree to facecamp every match, they'll both realize that their system doesn't work the way it is, as well as kill the game
If the bases are loaded and I hit a triple, three of my teammates make it to home plate, and then I get tagged out, that's a really good play, especially if it wins my team the game.
Likewise if I run a killer for 3 gens then die first hook, but the rest of my team is able to get out because of it, that should count as a win.
I think one issue that gets ignored on this. You cant judge survivors and killers the same. example:
Survivor: Has great 360s, runs killer 3 gens, heals another survivor one full health state, causes the killer to wiff. than dies. I would say this survivor is skilled this match. deserves to move up the MMR. They really pulled their weight.
Killer: Chases survivor for 3 gens, gets no hooks all match, wiffs, but, than at the last 2 gens, hooks the survivor, than uses that pressure to kill the other 3 survivors. I would say in this match, the killer is skilled. No one escaped. that is the ultimate goal.
problem is. the survivor in this case, did no gens. only did one heal. they dont pip.
all the other survivors that just did gens, and than all got outplayed for altruism. whether it be no borrowed time, or didnt body block to give distance. etc. but they will still pip up, sometimes double pip cause of accidental chase starts when the 1 survivor ran by them being chased lol
hopefully I explained it right. but ya, complete different metrics to judge killers and survivors. I kinda like the way killer is ranked with MMR.
It really only needs to be survivors that need an adjustment, examples:
AOE around you, to track killer wiffs towards you.
How many gens are done while your in chase (ignoring brief drops in chase dude to tiles etc) knowing when to just get away and do gens cause no one is, is a big tail of skill, imo.
if you can 99 a gate, get a hook save, than both survivors get out. that should do something.
idk, feel like it would take some effort for things like these. but would make a huge difference as you rank up.
Im a killer main who quit the game around the time Trickster released. When I saw your fake patch 7.0 video that legit made me WANT to come back and play killer. If the devs just listened to you…
This Patrick guy just doesn't seem like he knows what he's talking about at all. Hope they get some other bozo on for the next QnA Edit: just realized that they all probably share the same opinion or at least the majority of them do. BHVR is in shambles.
As he's asking "say you hook every killer twice, but they didn't die. But that feels weird." No, no it doesn't! And that comment literally lacks his understanding of the f!cking game. He has no idea what this game actually is, he doesn't play the game, and if he does, it doesn't freakin show. I've stopped pretty much playing at this point. I'm done with their shenanigans. I've gone back to overwatch.
The immediately obvious failing with the hockey analogy is that hockey doesn't use matchmaking. You just play everyone else in the league and then run bracket elimination playoffs for the championship, so it doesn't matter if they don't have sbmm…
The end result is only like 10% of the entire game, every match. So many variables go into it. "Skilled play leads to wins" is not at all how mmr is working in dbd. Literally just whatever can be abused to succeed the fastest is what wins. This kind of reasoning is so incredulously lazy and unbelievable.
He clearly has no clue what he's talking about and it's gonna run this game into the ground.
So he basically said "shots lead to goals so you can cut the middle man out" So basically a MLS bum with 100 shots on goal 0 goals is on par with christiano ronaldo with 50 shots on goal and 20 goals….. it also counts as a shot on goal when you kick it directly at the goalie do he know that?
"Hey guys depression here" made me actually lol
You need to count hooks AND kills for a killer I believe. For example, you count each kill but its value changes depending on how many times the survivor was hooked to get that kill. Then a survivor that is hooked once and gets camped to death will give less rating points than a survivor that was hooked all 3 times without proximity to hook penalty, with hooks on other survivors, etc. I think there's genuinely too much work and finesse needed to make an actual good skill system for these kind of devs to even consider 🙁
Videos like the DBD Q&A are the reason YT got rid of the dislike numbers.
Uh so let me get this straight. Mmr is basically generalized to all survivors despite only one survivor carrying the game. So it shouldn't do that… Let me ask you something and I may be wrong so correct me. Let's say hypothetically that your playing killer and you have 2 survivors Which are cracked and the other 2 are stupid. You kill the smart survivors but the dumb ones get away because they got Carried. Now they get the mmr that the pro survivors earned instead of losing mmr. Dosent that mean they get put with even smarter killers and eventually if their lucky even smarter killers? Wouldn't that mean they get punished for doing nothing in a sense because they get harder killers every time?as a killer that's excellent for me but if I'm a survivor that's a pain in the ass. That would also mean that the pros would get out with dumber/bad survivors/killers if they lose. Ohhh. That's why. It should be straight up removed than. Theirs no point in having a system that rewards bad plays over good plays because even if it works to some degree it really doesn't compensate for the loss. Wait but dosent that mean it's still like the old days kind of? Because you'll get A mixed bag instead consistently cracked survivors if your cracked? I mean if dumb survivors escape even though they didn't earn it dosent that mean each mach is a mixed bag of skill? So Essentially they added a sbmm system that dosent work at all and changed nothing? Am I missing something????? Am I wrong???
ok but have they explained why we need a sbmm system like at all? shouldn't sbmm just help protect like super noobs and thats basically it?
Would resetting mmr every once a while help?
We should be careful when constructing an MMR system around hooks, as it may promote more stealthy gameplay styles or "benched" survivors. Still in most games, including DBD is measured by greed and tactical precision: the greed to go for risky plays and the tactical precision to pull them off and get away with the greed. And so, I propose an MMR system wherein players gain MMR for triggering certain score events, and lose MMR in certain game states. The point is that while a survivor should still lose MMR for being eliminated and a killer's MMR should go down for allowing a survivor to escape, their other actions in the match should offset that loss. Here are some examples:
-Survivors gain MMR for triggering "Rescue" score events, excluding Bear Traps.
-Survivors gain MMR for triggering "Repairs," or for being in chase when a teammate triggers "Repairs."
-All Survivors lose MMR if the killer triggers "Sacrifice."
-Killers gain MMR for triggering "Hooked"
-Killers gain MMR for triggering "Hit"
-Killers lose MMR when a survivor triggers "Survived," except when paired with "Hatch Escape."
This MMR system is incredibly simple to wrap one's head around, and allows for a much greater expression of skill in SBMM without (hopefully) giving an unfair advantage to any one playstyle. All that would be left is determining values.
I cant believe survivor mains are this dense. Are you really gonna blame lower killer numbers on MMR and continue to blind yourselves of the truth that killer mains have been trying to say since MMR released. I'm pretty sure killers know why killer numbers are lower. THEY QUIT PLAYING DBD BECAUSE OF ENTITLEMENT!! When MMR first changed it didn't reflect immediately because the reason wasn't MMR. When MMR released there were other changes made THAT KILLER MAINS KEPT POINTING OUT!! Namely, bringing in circle of healing AT THE SAME TIME AS nerfing killers (Spirit and Deathslinger just to name a few) AND AT THE SAME TIME buffing the hell out of survivor perks. Pinhead had just released and seemed rather powerful and hopeful, but then, he got nerfed in both the next 2 updates and survivor perks got buffed more! You may not agree, but, put your survivor opinions aside, put yourselves into killer main shoes, and pay attention!! Killers complained massively about this, saying that BHVR was favoring survivors. All they received in return was mockery and scorn from the survivor community. Killer mains repeatedly told survivor mains (myself included) that they were gonna lose killer mains and there wouldn't be enough killers left for the game to properly function and survivors were gonna be forced to play killer just to play. That is now a very real thing and is reflecting in both matchmaking and killer numbers. THIS EVEN GOT THE ATTENTION OF BHVR and was addressed both to and by Matthew Cote. He said that killers were saying the game was survivor sided and told killer mains that if they didn't like it to go play something else, AND THEY DID!! The reason there isn't enough killers is because they quit playing DBD like Matthew Cote so pridefully told them to do (myself included). Now survivor mains are starting to see this effecting the game and refuse to admit it and instead blame it on MMR. Open your eyes, even @Scott Jund said that when MMR released that this didn't happen right away. I guarantee you can trace the timing of the change in matchmaking occurred when Matthew Cote was cocky enough to tell killers to play something else. I know SEVERAL killers that quit when Matt made that statement (myself included). But dont listen to me, I'm just a killer main, keep blaming your lack of killers on MMR and don't listen to what the killers themselves are saying if you choose, stay in your survivor echo chamber and watch DBD die in your pride. This includes you Scott Jund. I hope you actually address my comment on your video, because DBD needs it!! This isn't about MMR accuracy at all, this is the effect of entitlement.
Game was doing good before MMR smh
They take that ‘Death is not an escape’ thing from the main menu pretty seriously when it comes to MMR
justin's expression lmao
BHVR not understanding the game BHVR developed is the most BHVR thing I've ever seen.
Christ, these people are irritatingly stupid sometimes.
Killer used to be fun, then they decided to take the fun, put it in camps, and put those camps at the end of some railroad tracks.
That is one of the biggest issues. No one wants to play killer. When i queue as killer it is an instant match find. When I am as survivor my queue is so long. Playing killer for casual players is frustrating and feels survivor sided. When In reality if you play killer a lot it is actually pretty balanced and the killer has a strong chance.
Fuck yeah elden ring in a month hell yeah. Oh I guess the not enough killers thing is cool too idk
I would also like to point out nobody tea bags at it hockey games hockey players may throw some games but it happens a lot more in gaming
There’s the proof for the people who believe BHVR cares 😗
These devs should run for political office with all the obfuscation and deliberate denial of problems in the game.
Dude please tell me this is satire. You just hired people to say this, honestly good work I almost believed it. Even got actors that look exactly like the devs. I will continue to live this delusion.
i will not look at the video reaction because every word patrick says makes me want to punch him into face
I think the problem can be boiled down to the fact that dbd is not a win/lose game. You don’t really win or lose. You either played a good game and racked up points, or you played a bad game and ended up with little to nothing. I think the best thing to do would be to make it a ranked game again and tweak the fuck out of the ranking system/how pips are earned. Does this not seem like the most logical option? Why did they ever decide, “let’s make rank worthless and create a black and white mmr system that isn’t suitable for this game”? Like wtf.
Can we just go back to rank system I know it wasn’t good but at least I felt I knew where I stood on the ranking system kinda
I love it when they do these QnAs and they’re answers are always “We not gonna talk about it” or “You don’t know anything, and everything we do is right”
It took a long time to join a game as survivor before MMR too. I think killers are just leaving or moving over to survivor because killer isn't fun. Probably because MMR doesn't consider swf so at night and on weekends people play less killer because there are more swfs and it stops being fun.
"whats up guys its depression" literally made me laugh out loud
What's amazing is that if we all just agree to facecamp every match, they'll both realize that their system doesn't work the way it is, as well as kill the game
its so so sad to think about bhvr
I think a better analogy would be baseball.
If the bases are loaded and I hit a triple, three of my teammates make it to home plate, and then I get tagged out, that's a really good play, especially if it wins my team the game.
Likewise if I run a killer for 3 gens then die first hook, but the rest of my team is able to get out because of it, that should count as a win.
That dude literally says no matter how good your individual skill is in sport, if your team losses, you are trash and not skillful.
I think one issue that gets ignored on this. You cant judge survivors and killers the same. example:
Survivor:
Has great 360s, runs killer 3 gens, heals another survivor one full health state, causes the killer to wiff. than dies. I would say this survivor is skilled this match. deserves to move up the MMR. They really pulled their weight.
Killer:
Chases survivor for 3 gens, gets no hooks all match, wiffs, but, than at the last 2 gens, hooks the survivor, than uses that pressure to kill the other 3 survivors. I would say in this match, the killer is skilled. No one escaped. that is the ultimate goal.
problem is. the survivor in this case, did no gens. only did one heal. they dont pip.
all the other survivors that just did gens, and than all got outplayed for altruism. whether it be no borrowed time, or didnt body block to give distance. etc. but they will still pip up,
sometimes double pip cause of accidental chase starts when the 1 survivor ran by them being chased lol
hopefully I explained it right. but ya, complete different metrics to judge killers and survivors. I kinda like the way killer is ranked with MMR.
It really only needs to be survivors that need an adjustment, examples:
AOE around you, to track killer wiffs towards you.
How many gens are done while your in chase (ignoring brief drops in chase dude to tiles etc) knowing when to just get away and do gens cause no one is, is a big tail of skill, imo.
if you can 99 a gate, get a hook save, than both survivors get out. that should do something.
idk, feel like it would take some effort for things like these. but would make a huge difference as you rank up.
Im a killer main who quit the game around the time Trickster released. When I saw your fake patch 7.0 video that legit made me WANT to come back and play killer. If the devs just listened to you…
Patrick looks like Louis Litt from Suits
This Patrick guy just doesn't seem like he knows what he's talking about at all. Hope they get some other bozo on for the next QnA
Edit: just realized that they all probably share the same opinion or at least the majority of
them do. BHVR is in shambles.
If there are all these glaring flaws with an MMR system, even a perfect one, why not go with the ranking system from before?
As he's asking "say you hook every killer twice, but they didn't die. But that feels weird." No, no it doesn't! And that comment literally lacks his understanding of the f!cking game. He has no idea what this game actually is, he doesn't play the game, and if he does, it doesn't freakin show. I've stopped pretty much playing at this point. I'm done with their shenanigans. I've gone back to overwatch.
Why do you have a sponge taped to your headset
I havent played dbd in two weeks couldn’t be happier. I can enjoy gaming and i dont have to sweat as nurse
The immediately obvious failing with the hockey analogy is that hockey doesn't use matchmaking. You just play everyone else in the league and then run bracket elimination playoffs for the championship, so it doesn't matter if they don't have sbmm…
Man this dev team reminds me of blizzard. "you think you do, but you dont" BUT look at how well classic wow has done?
The end result is only like 10% of the entire game, every match. So many variables go into it. "Skilled play leads to wins" is not at all how mmr is working in dbd. Literally just whatever can be abused to succeed the fastest is what wins. This kind of reasoning is so incredulously lazy and unbelievable.
He clearly has no clue what he's talking about and it's gonna run this game into the ground.
So he basically said "shots lead to goals so you can cut the middle man out"
So basically a MLS bum with 100 shots on goal 0 goals is on par with christiano ronaldo with 50 shots on goal and 20 goals….. it also counts as a shot on goal when you kick it directly at the goalie do he know that?