25 thoughts on “Behaviour Comments on Decisive Strike / Tunneling – Dead by Daylight”
I think you're kind of misrepresenting what Peanits is saying. He doesn't mention code complexity at all, these are just design considerations. If the goal of this change is to counter tunnelling then disabling the right-click action of all killers is not an equally effective solution, or even effective at all in some cases. It's exactly as they say, each killer power would need to be considered, modified, and tested in isolation which is a huge ask. I think they're less interested in half-baked solutions that will pull players who are going to tunnel anyway into using killers which would circumvent the effect altogether. Just off the top of my head, I'm thinking Nemesis zombies, Unknown teleport, Freddy teleport, Twins switching.
I never liked the idea of disabling the killer's power entirely over d strike because at that point EVERY survivor can get value out of it then. Like you mentioned with hag if you got hit with a d strike and survivors start running over her traps now they are rewarded by removing her traps and not punished anymore because you got hit with d strike and no longer have a power. Same thing with say billy if he needs to go defend a generator somewhere now he can't get to it because he got hit with d strike and now every other survivor in the match doesn't have to worry about getting hit by an artist snipe or onryo teleporting because of one play or even misplay since you might not even want to pick up that survivor and they run into a locker forcing the d strike and locking you out of your power in an unwinnable situation.
so, the people making and working on the game, actively, are saying something isnt valid and your response as somebody whos NOT doing that, not a part of that process, is to say thats not true? Excuse me, what? Pretty sure they would know, and hes openly saying this.
Tunneling will never go away completely and honestly idt the devs want it to, i don’t even think they wanna make any harder then it is rn cuz their stats r where they want them to be, also I don’t agree that Tunneling can only be fixed by punishing killer, cuz in the end tunneling is a strat, taking away strats from killers based on personal feelings and not giving any remedy for that strat being gone will not help the game, it just won’t, both positive and negative reinforcement need to happen at the same time
On the subject of making tunneling equal to/worse than not doing it, they could make it so hooking a survivor again doesn't automatically advance them to the next hook stage. Instead, their entity progress will keep ticking even after they've been unhooked, stopping just before the next stage, at which point they have to be hooked again for it to advance.
I wouldn't object to a "nuclear option" for DS. Remove the timer and let it work multiple times in a row. It's only disabled when another survivor is hooked, after a conspicuous action or after missing the skill-check. This is obviously a severe change, but as someone who actively tries not to tunnel I'd feel great knowing that survivors wasted a perk slot.
Then there is an easier fix, make DS stun even longer, is unfun? it is but then survivor can buy way more distance to the point if the killer has its power you can still make ton of distance, lets say 7 seconds or so, it will be frustrating to be stunned in animation for 7 seconds but it will dissent tunneling for sure, will promove slugging (nothing we didnt deal with in the pass when it was 5 seconds ds) people will bring Unbrekable again.
I get why the devs aren’t specifically saying that they’re trying to get rid of tunnelling. I hate to say it, but it is a way to play the game. The whole point of Killers is to kill the Survivors. It should be encouraged not to tunnel (like it is anyway) but if bad Killers want or have to do it, then they can.
active powers already have cooldowns, they all do. This would be just triggering that cooldown from DS instead of from using the power. Its definitely not as complex as they are trying to say.
I don’t think it’s more complicated coding wise, I think it’s just more complicated on whether disability and active ability is the balanced and right choice. That which I don’t think it is. Every active killer ability is different, and to give them a blanket rule like this seems like I would affect killers in a variety of ways, not always aligned with the intention of the change to begin with.
Also, if I got hit bs DS and got stunned, then got my power straight up turned off for a period of timed that would suck.
I don’t even necessary have to be hard tunneling and could end up still hooking inbetween the 60 sec mark.
Survivors could int into a killer off hook and be at a net benefit because they turn the killer off for 8 seconds or however long it is.
Maybe if the cooldown is extremely short, but if not then I agree with the dev that it’s not the most balanced and fair decision.
They can't/don't want to completely remove tunneling becasue they know there are circumstances where it's necessary. If you took it away completely you're essentially saying the killer MUST 12 hook to win and the game just isn't balanced around that.
Have you ever thought that maybe tunneling just isn't as big a problem as you think it is? If tunneling is as absolutely RIFE as you make it out to be all the time wouldn't the kill rate be far above the 60%ish average where bhvr say they want it? And if the kill rate is only that high becasue of all the tunneling wouldn't taking it away completely tank the kill rate which they don't want?
“It’s hard” is such a BHVR excuse, genuinely the only big thing that makes me lose some respect for them is when this excuse comes up for something that would massively benefit the game
DBD's core design is a mess honestky. There is no way to truly make it "balanced" or "fix" it. The devs will forever flip flop around with the balance and its not gona be perfect until the game is abandoned for 6 years and every nuance is figured out by the community.
heres a better idea how about they buff it to 7 seconds but disable the perk if they take a protection hit (I.E taking hit off hook from built in borrowed time)
As a killer main we should just let the survivors have a fun game play let this do all the gens and escape for free why should we have fun it’s a 4v1 and swfs with 4 the ppl ahhh that’s fair too lol 😊
Nowhere did they say that it would be too hard to "code" aka implement. They basically said that it would be too much trouble to design for a single perk and it would need consideration for every killer power change/addition in the future.
They don't want perks that have this kind of heavy upkeep.
Comparing that to a limited time event is not that realistic.
I think the real change to ds needs to be a 2 time use. 1 per hook. If they really wanna tackle tunneling with this perk that would actually be very warranted just because it punishes those who are hell bent on tunneling a single person out. It makes them a lot harder to do that and gives the other survivors ample time to really push out gens also to help with ds punishing tunneling
I think you're kind of misrepresenting what Peanits is saying. He doesn't mention code complexity at all, these are just design considerations. If the goal of this change is to counter tunnelling then disabling the right-click action of all killers is not an equally effective solution, or even effective at all in some cases. It's exactly as they say, each killer power would need to be considered, modified, and tested in isolation which is a huge ask. I think they're less interested in half-baked solutions that will pull players who are going to tunnel anyway into using killers which would circumvent the effect altogether. Just off the top of my head, I'm thinking Nemesis zombies, Unknown teleport, Freddy teleport, Twins switching.
I wonder how good it would be if it was 3-4s plus .5s per gen left to complete?
I never liked the idea of disabling the killer's power entirely over d strike because at that point EVERY survivor can get value out of it then. Like you mentioned with hag if you got hit with a d strike and survivors start running over her traps now they are rewarded by removing her traps and not punished anymore because you got hit with d strike and no longer have a power. Same thing with say billy if he needs to go defend a generator somewhere now he can't get to it because he got hit with d strike and now every other survivor in the match doesn't have to worry about getting hit by an artist snipe or onryo teleporting because of one play or even misplay since you might not even want to pick up that survivor and they run into a locker forcing the d strike and locking you out of your power in an unwinnable situation.
so, the people making and working on the game, actively, are saying something isnt valid and your response as somebody whos NOT doing that, not a part of that process, is to say thats not true? Excuse me, what? Pretty sure they would know, and hes openly saying this.
Tunneling will never go away completely and honestly idt the devs want it to, i don’t even think they wanna make any harder then it is rn cuz their stats r where they want them to be, also I don’t agree that Tunneling can only be fixed by punishing killer, cuz in the end tunneling is a strat, taking away strats from killers based on personal feelings and not giving any remedy for that strat being gone will not help the game, it just won’t, both positive and negative reinforcement need to happen at the same time
On the subject of making tunneling equal to/worse than not doing it, they could make it so hooking a survivor again doesn't automatically advance them to the next hook stage. Instead, their entity progress will keep ticking even after they've been unhooked, stopping just before the next stage, at which point they have to be hooked again for it to advance.
I wouldn't object to a "nuclear option" for DS. Remove the timer and let it work multiple times in a row. It's only disabled when another survivor is hooked, after a conspicuous action or after missing the skill-check. This is obviously a severe change, but as someone who actively tries not to tunnel I'd feel great knowing that survivors wasted a perk slot.
“Bhvr level”
Those words scare me
same
Then there is an easier fix, make DS stun even longer, is unfun? it is but then survivor can buy way more distance to the point if the killer has its power you can still make ton of distance, lets say 7 seconds or so, it will be frustrating to be stunned in animation for 7 seconds but it will dissent tunneling for sure, will promove slugging (nothing we didnt deal with in the pass when it was 5 seconds ds) people will bring Unbrekable again.
I get why the devs aren’t specifically saying that they’re trying to get rid of tunnelling. I hate to say it, but it is a way to play the game. The whole point of Killers is to kill the Survivors. It should be encouraged not to tunnel (like it is anyway) but if bad Killers want or have to do it, then they can.
Power disabling isn't as simple as it seems because not every power is the same. Let's say it disables it for 10 seconds
Like who cares if you can have 10 seconds against blight, they'll just down your immediately after since it's blight, he can catch up any distance
But 10 seconds in ghost face would literally do NOTHING
And for deathslinger, you're literally killing him
active powers already have cooldowns, they all do. This would be just triggering that cooldown from DS instead of from using the power. Its definitely not as complex as they are trying to say.
I don’t think it’s more complicated coding wise, I think it’s just more complicated on whether disability and active ability is the balanced and right choice. That which I don’t think it is. Every active killer ability is different, and to give them a blanket rule like this seems like I would affect killers in a variety of ways, not always aligned with the intention of the change to begin with.
Also, if I got hit bs DS and got stunned, then got my power straight up turned off for a period of timed that would suck.
I don’t even necessary have to be hard tunneling and could end up still hooking inbetween the 60 sec mark.
Survivors could int into a killer off hook and be at a net benefit because they turn the killer off for 8 seconds or however long it is.
Maybe if the cooldown is extremely short, but if not then I agree with the dev that it’s not the most balanced and fair decision.
They can't/don't want to completely remove tunneling becasue they know there are circumstances where it's necessary. If you took it away completely you're essentially saying the killer MUST 12 hook to win and the game just isn't balanced around that.
Have you ever thought that maybe tunneling just isn't as big a problem as you think it is? If tunneling is as absolutely RIFE as you make it out to be all the time wouldn't the kill rate be far above the 60%ish average where bhvr say they want it? And if the kill rate is only that high becasue of all the tunneling wouldn't taking it away completely tank the kill rate which they don't want?
“It’s hard” is such a BHVR excuse, genuinely the only big thing that makes me lose some respect for them is when this excuse comes up for something that would massively benefit the game
DBD's core design is a mess honestky. There is no way to truly make it "balanced" or "fix" it. The devs will forever flip flop around with the balance and its not gona be perfect until the game is abandoned for 6 years and every nuance is figured out by the community.
This video is a skill issue
Well said Scott
heres a better idea how about they buff it to 7 seconds but disable the perk if they take a protection hit (I.E taking hit off hook from built in borrowed time)
Imagine trapper can't interact with traps after a DS 💀💀💀
As a killer main we should just let the survivors have a fun game play let this do all the gens and escape for free why should we have fun it’s a 4v1 and swfs with 4 the ppl ahhh that’s fair too lol 😊
Nowhere did they say that it would be too hard to "code" aka implement. They basically said that it would be too much trouble to design for a single perk and it would need consideration for every killer power change/addition in the future.
They don't want perks that have this kind of heavy upkeep.
Comparing that to a limited time event is not that realistic.
I think the real change to ds needs to be a 2 time use. 1 per hook. If they really wanna tackle tunneling with this perk that would actually be very warranted just because it punishes those who are hell bent on tunneling a single person out. It makes them a lot harder to do that and gives the other survivors ample time to really push out gens also to help with ds punishing tunneling
What if made a game mode where it took 3 hits to go down but once you get hooked, you are gone