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Probably gonna get some flak but whatever it proves my point about this game being in a massive echo chamber, comments are there if you disagree though. Don’t play an insane amount but I do keep up with balance and the fact that so many things stay the same baffles me.
source
There are a couple "killer sided" maps. But they're dependent on what killer you're playing. the Otz offering list gives a fairly good guide to map balance imo. But the "killer sided" maps are not as insane as lets say Garden of Joy. If you get 4k'd on garden of joy, the killer is exponentially better than you or running noed and you guys didn't respect that chance. Eyrie of crows is another one. You can 3 gen yourself on Eyrie. You have to actively try to 3 gen yourself. If you even understand main building A LITTLE, eyrie is a free 3 minute loop unless the killer wins a super risky mind game. Ayrun has a match on that map with something like a 5 minute chase. If you're good at looping Main on both of those maps are pseudo infinites.
If we look at a "killer sided" map like Elementary school or Dead Dawg. Well Dead Dawg has a 1/3 chance to spawn with a literal infinite in main. Its one of the few still in the game. And Elementary is only "killer sided" because the map is tiny. It also has a super boring design of every pallet being god or bad. Though more god than bad pallets.
If a map is survivor sided, its usually actual hell on earth for the killer player. If its killer sided, it just means there's a casino edge for you.
And we're not even going to talk about badham. That map sucks.
Really well-made video! My biggest problem with DBD is the choice of taking fun, off-meta killer perks (Causing you to have to concentrate more to make up for having less competitive perks) or boring gen-slowdown perks (Allowing you to play more comfortably against normal lobbies). TLDR: The fun perks make you lose more, while the Meta perks aren't interesting or exciting to use…
I have no strong opinion about the video, since it's correct but also most survivors aren't really good or coordinated enough to show why survivor is an OP role. I'm more just commenting because the comment section depresses me at how much this game's community seems to villify people who are just trying to win at the video game.
– 🤓
Goat video
I might get flamed for saying this but I have near 100% win rate as merchant and one of my main tactics is just using 3 semi indoor maps offerings that take advantage of skull merchants undectable status she gives herself from drones as opposed to getting bad maps like Garden of joy or at the very least competing against another survivors map offering.
I know map offerings are frowned upon but I don't view it as badly on killers that have decent amount going against them. Like if a killer like Hillbilly gets put on Lerys or if a stealth killer gets put on ormond similar to what you said in the video a survivor is less likely to hate a map than a killer would.
The paradox of the game being treated like a party game when balanced like a competitive game is crazy.
Even the weakest killer (twins) has over a sixty percent kill rate what constitutes a win? 4K? 3K? Some killer players don’t get a 4K because someone escapes from hatch and the my cry, the game isn’t weighted too much one way or the other but everyone wants the 4K. STATISTICALLY you cannot say the game is survivor sided, you could reasonably say “High MMR games where both sides play optimally typically result in 2 or less kills” but most of the people complaining about this AREN’T at the top and playing optimally. People just need to accept that you win some, and you lose some. Should we not expect about a 50% escape rate for the game to be considered “balanced”? If not, what rate should we expect and why?
No lol
Your "source" is just wrong, the game is neither killer nor survivor sided. While yes a squad is able to run a meta and have a more likely chance of winning the game the same can be said for killers bringing meta perks and addons. And the maps list just simply is not true whatsoever. The current kill rate is 60%, and in my expirience of playing this game for 7+ years that this is the most balanced it has ever been. This video was clearly made after you lost to a four man and played badly and now you're salty and want to call the game unbalanced. Do better for your community.
I think the reason why its survivor sided is very simple. Its about the money.. i think survivor mains buy more cosmetics then a killer main would. Ppl like to buy skins for there survivor of choice. I bet you anything. If we just had the stats on which side buys the most cosmetic, you will have ur answer.
I feel like most if not all DbD content creators just sometimes over exaggerate some stuff in the game and it makes it so ppl who watch the content creators just go along with it and say "oh, this is bad" or "oh, this is OP, blah blah". Basically ppl just go along with one opinion from one guy and instead of making their own opinions, they just choose to love or hate something becuz one guy said so. Ppl choose to never make their own opinion and thats why ppl choose to just hate on killers such as skull merchant just becuz one guy or something chooses to hate for no reason as soon as they released and everyone suddenly chose they hate her as well and everyone says the same thing. "She 3 gens", "she holds the game hostage", or everyone's favorite, "she's a thirst trap" or "she's boring as and against".. like firstly.. every killer can 3 gen, she only made it slightly easier due to having base kit info. The person holding the game hostage got inspired to do it becuz their favourite content creators did it and think its funny, and a 4 minute DC penalty isn't gonna hurt you, plus in mu experience, i never fsced a skull Merchant who did whatbppl claimed she does. And the only reason she was "boring" is becuz everyone just hates her over simple stuff any killer can do. Its easier yo find stuff to hate over the stuff you can like. I know it's opinion to say if a killer is boring or not, but if everyone says the exact same thing of she's boring becuz she can 3 gen or something, just DC or if she's somehow boring to play as, then don't play her.
SBMM is just too confusing to me honestly.. when i play survivor, i usually get the worst possible SoloQ teammates and usually an average to great killer (usually doesn't sweat and just plays the game) but when i play killer, i either get survivors who are absolutely new to the game fresh out the womb with less than a few hundred hours or a sweaty team that manages to not get hooked and t bag at gate being a bunch of sore winners and such.
I disagree. Dead by Daylight is meant to be and is attempting to balanced both first person single player gameplay with online 4 player coop horror. It's extremely difficult to do so and the killer is the most important, yet most mentally exhausting side of the game. Being that escaping the killer is the main objective of the game, chasing 4 people who are doing the same objective agaisnt a single person is always going to be objectively difficult to balance.
On top of this Dead by daylight adds perks into the mix. Basically soft powers for each side and some perks are SEVERELY OVERUSED by their efficiency without much or no counterplay (Example: Pain Rez – Decisive Strike) makes the game much harder to balance, add into the mix the amount of garbage tier perks that COULD be amazing given the right buff but the devs are too scared of the community to attempt to do s because of this dumb mentality of "Hurr durr game is bluh bluh sided".
I think the answer is much easier then most people think. Behaviour is an awful company and puts profits above everything else so at the end of the day its selling 4 cosmetics against 1.
It’s killer sided 😭😂bro….randoms, 2 gens left, perks that give away Your location every time you sneeze, teammates that don’t do gens, pay to win, and perks so debuffed they’re only good for holding my broken window open😅 butt 🍑hey I didn’t pay 30 bucks for a cheap Canadian pc game with 2010 Freddy Krueger
Leatherface is not weak you did him dirty😢
I totally agree with the game being survivor sided. I’m a killer main who plays soloq and occasional swf, and it’s like night and day. Killer is either fun or incredibly stressful, cannot even enter a single chase without gens popping instantly and sweating (but good chases are fun if either side are just chilling). Then when I play survivor, it is the easiest thing 💀. I tend to go for chases and I always feel bad when it isn’t fun for either player, it sucks. Going on survivor for me is just either getting tunneled right off the bat or it’s “do gens, run sometimes”.
Depending on what killer you are, this video is absolutely irrelevant
You cant even win anymore this is why i face camp with bubba to ruin 1 survivor day
Tell me you don’t main solo q without telling me
Skill Issue
I'm glad someone is adressing this. I'm quite new and want to play normally. No tryhard, no toxic builds, no camping or tunneling. But once I get better survivors or even when they play together, then it's terrible. Like I don't even stand a chance and it's not fun at all.
I play both survivor and killer and the game does feel survivor sided but probably because I'm much better at survivor. it seems survivor has better maps and perks, but the statistics say the game is killer sided, so idk.
In low mmr, killer sided. High mmr, survivor sided
The a red umber that 4 incompetent players is awful the fact that 4 comoentent players can destroy a competent killer is horrible in mk1 there was an infinite that was hard to do does it mean it should stay or be removed.
I think the real problem now with the game is…they don’t know if they want a competitive or party game(which is a marketing problem, they need to make money). The only way to balance DBD is to turn into a casual game and remove balance, give both sides broken perks, broken add ons, items, etc. the era of DBD where I had the most fun was when survivors had 4 second chance perks and killers had old ruin. Why? It was fun chaos. Now every match is very predictable/boring. Same perks on every killer, survivors pre drop every pallet and hide, they don’t try any new move. It’s no longer a adrenaline heavy game, if the gens are done, you won, if a survivor DC you won
I agree with one major point in your video, and that is that people complain about the wrong things. Every day when I'm in a Swf someone will complain about camping and especially tunneling and 90% of the time it's not happening. Even if it is, it's detrimental to the Killer to play that way so you should be happy he's doing it so your team can get more gens done.
Yeah. No, the game is, as much it doesn’t feel like it, has been getting fairly better at balancing both sides evenly now, since it was released, at release there was no entity blocking, you were out in one hook, there was no bleeding out, end game timer, you could get grabbed out of hatch by a killer mid animation, 7-Blink Nurse existed, Insta blind beamers. Most long-standing dbd creators lived through this era and is why we confidently say this state of dbd is the most balanced it’s been, In all honesty, this feels like it was rushed without doing a massive amount of research into entire lifespan of the game, you can’t discredit the opinions of creators who might have been in this game since day 1, or even from Beta, which a few I know are, without backtracking Dead by Daylight’s Balance History. But hey I’m just someone who’s played the game for 5 years and earning a paycheck from it for 3 so what do I know lol
3:35 isnt dead dog killer sided? Like everytime i get this map as killer i dont even try and win its just a very small map
I think that there are too many variables as to exactly say which side the meta leans to. The variables in question also are in no way equal and it imo it goes like this:
the Killer picked > Perks > Individual competence > Maps > Addons > Items
Won't really include things like strats (camping, tunneling, slugging), as they are basically included in the competence (skill) part. So, the oh so obsolete tunneling can still make the killer 4k and make you punch a hole through the screen if your team has 0 to negative game sense.
Despite all this, I'd still say the game is fairly balanced, but the already so money hungry and trash BHVR we all know still do have work cut out for them for the future.
The map tier list is questionable at best: Hawkins, Haddonfield, RPD East, Saloon, Wreckers Yard, Midwich, Lery's and Toba Landing (also, The Game, but that's really depending on the killer) are all really good for killer, if they choose to play them correctly. Meanwhile Rotten Fields has one of the lowest killer winrates of all time, Ormond is also heavily survivor sided. There is no way Mother's Dwelling is heavily survivor sided after its latest update which reduced its size.
The problem is the gap between the best and the worst killers like you have nurse Billy who can either play around almost any loop and nurse who ignores the game mechanics and then you have Freddy who arguably doesn’t have a chase power at all
I agree with everything except one thing.
Vecna is actually kinda trash. There are two techniques you can use if you have good ping that render Mage Hand useless, at best an 80/20. Even with poor ping, Flight of the Damned is almost useless against experienced survivors, and Fly cannot be used to go through windows or god pallets. Just stand on the pallet or window when he starts the animation.
I'm pretty experienced with him since I've played Vecna exclusively since release. Let me tell you, going against three or four survivors who know all of this is an insta-loss unless you're a god at M1 killer gameplay.
If I were to guess, I'd say I still have a 70% win rate, which I also have with all killers. What is kind of frustrating is the hopelessness. There's nothing you can do except M1 gameplay if they know what's up. The same sentiment going against full meta blight. If the killer understands pressure and macro, in most maps… You're done.
DBD is for SWFs. That is their bread and butter.
Can you answer this 3 problem ?
1- solo gaming experience
Playing with 3 random people is already a mathematically difficult endeavor. Especially if 2 of them are troll friends, your gaming experience is completely up to their discretion.
2- Aura reading perks of killers
Aura reading perks are out of control and have no weaknesses. For example; The distortion perk is made in 3 stacks and you have to wait next to the killer for a certain period of time. For faket killers, gene blasting or aura reading abilities are completely free. open a closet and see everyone, kick the gens and see everyone. a cooldown of just 30 seconds means almost nothing
3- very heavy addons,
Staying lame is nonsense in itself, not every perk and addon is designed for every killer here, for example, anti camp perks do not work for flying killers like nurses. or Bubba addons, which can loop almost endlessly, completely destroy the gaming experience.
Gens repair times increased to 90 seconds, self and teammate healing times extended….
All of these were done purely to satisfy the egos of the killers. If you pay attention, the killers are having fun with you in the game. They can tunnel as they wish, because at best it will take you a long, long time to complete 2 or 3 gens. A 20% loss with a single perk will also extend this period..
Its neither sided. Its SWF sided.
womp womp
No perks in this game for killers were ever comparable to survivor perk metas; old DS, old MFT, old MoM, old OoO, etc. Ruin was the closest it ever came and it still wasn't close
Oh moris used to be OP back in the day? Yeah so did BNP and Sabo and exhaustion perks and pallet vacuum and (the list goes on). Now individual killer kits, I will readily admit are a whole nother story
I just started playing, I exclusively play killer and I picked The Hillbilly because chainsaws are cool. Feels like I win most games and it feels like a killer sided game.
Good points my guy, here's a sub
I personally disagree. DBD has countless factors that combine to create any given match. These factors are present in both sides and are impossible to determine the exact level in which they affect the outcome of the match. Due to this complexity I believe statistics are our best outlook on the games overall health. One of the most concerning stats from the 2024 Feb Developer update was that 4 man SWFS achieved only a 40% escape rate while killers complain about their advantage. As a survivor main that has played high levels of both sides, I have found that I have a higher win rate on killer even though I have less hours (Note: I also get sweaty swfs that I might lose against but I still win MOST of the time against survivors with thousands more hours than me).
In response to the Video: I don't believe the personal assumption at 5:00 is a good way to approach the question. You came to the conclusion from your own opinion / experience with the game and although its good to value your opinion, its by no means a okay point to make in a video calling it 'unarguable' when and several fundamental points are based on your individual conclusion (Personally with my experience I have found the killer wins more in that of a similar situation). The map tier list is also extremely subjective causing tangents and linked reasoning to become much weaker. Stating that NO maps are killer favoured is not a good starting point as it creates a whole separate conversation in of itself. Sure you can say certain maps favour killers, however, saying all maps are survivor sided or balanced isn't correct. Referencing the overall statistics 'strong' survivor maps can equate to just as much as the rest being weak survivor maps and unbalanced – you see DBD is MOSTLY balanced and whether the game is truly Survivor sided or truly killer sided, it would be by a small margin. If the maps were as survivor sided as you present them to be then results would definitely reflect that. Overall in themselves many maps seem surv sided however other factors clearly cancel that out otherwise kills/per game would be insane.
My Conclusion: In final I believe the best outcome is that a 500 hundred hour killer player vs 4 x 500 hour survivor players with roughly equal perks should result in a (roughly) 55% chance of killer win (3, or 4k) in soloQ but a 45% in SWF. Remember this is all my opinion and I would love to discuss if you disagree / want to share your thoughts.
in the last update they just have killers hella buffs and they gave survivors 10 more seconds in one state on a hook does that seem survivor sided to you? they give killers everything might as well make it to where killers can pull pallets down too at this point
Good joke, dbd is killer sided just look at all killer perks lel XD and the Devs dont even play their game so balacing game is kinda joke too
A killer basically holds the entire game in their hands. The killer decides the outcome to a much larger degree than the survivors. I have to sweat more when I play as a killer, but that's just how the game is. Playing as killer vs as survivor are two different games. I generally find myself winning at least 50% of games both as survivor and as killer. I've had some really bad killer games where I got wrecked by the survivors, but I always feel like I could've done something differently to win. It's my own fault if I lose. All perks and playstyles have a counter.
I think that the issue is that games you lose make a much bigger impact in your mind. You remember the bad games where the other team messed you up more than the games you absolutely killed it. That's why survivor mains say the game is killer sided, and killer mains say the game is surv sided. I play both, although mostly killer now because solo queue survivor is absolute garbage, but I genuinely feel like it's very well balanced, and if I ever feel like I'm doing bad/on a losing streak, I just switch out some of my perks or try a new killer. I used to play Ghostface but I lost a lot because I didn't get his power, and I suck at chases, but then started playing Legion with some slowdown and I win a lot. Oh, and I generally feel like I'm a nice killer, I avoid tunneling, I never camp (except the late game), and I avoid perks that I hate facing as a survivor.
It's a party game, not a esports so doesn't matter if its killer sided or survivor sided just have fun with your friends, and yeah the esports scene for dbd has failed already…cus its a party game
Yeah the devs are def survivor sided. One thing they tend to forget along with every other survivor main is that the game is 1v4. Killers are already at a disadvantage number wise. The killer is the power role. Survivors are meant to cower in fear and hide, doing generators stealthfully and running like hell away from them. Instead there are like 20 perks that let the survivor duel the killer despite the role of survivor is supposed to be weaker. Also all the band aid fixes they give survivors to counter just normal strats. The base kit BT and the gen kick limit being examples. Gen kick limit was made to get rid of 3 gens but in reality a 3 gen is created when survivors aren't smart about what order they do gens. Sure a killer can herd survivors into making a 3 gen but more then often it's the survivor's fault. And the basekit BT went from letting survivors who just got off hook the ability to hide and heal more safely to being an offensive tool against the killer. Protection hits with the effect directly counter the reason it was added in the first place. And there's rumors that basekit Unbreakable is becoming a thing….Yeah…It's gotten that bad. Killers can't do anything no more. So survivors can play however they want, Make builds that synergize with the other survivor's builds, And goof around and embarrass the killer. Meanwhile the killer has to deal with possible SWF, 3 gens being done in the first chase, body protection hits, and can't afford time to be chill because of the first issue. Generators do too fast and they just need to rework the whole system. Take a page from Friday the 13th and make generator parts spawn around the map. Survivors have the install the parts instead of doing skill checks. Each part takes like 10-20 or even 40 seconds to install, time depends on the part. This would award survivors with less brain dead gameplay, makes them actually have to explore the map, and makes team work a lot more awarding since they can collect partsx and install them at the same time. What killers would get is easier chances to find survivors who are looking for parts, slower gen completion times, and more of a chance to get a foot hold on the survivors. Of course my concept is just something I threw together just now but honestly it seems a lot better than the system we got now.
Very nice comparasion with ovewatch there, because in OW we DID have broken strategies that required team play, mostly with dps that could one shot with a mercy pocket, and those instances get nerfed because if you can use a strategy then it is part of the game. Of course there would be matches that both supports would just recuse to play mercy, but when there's the chance of two decent players picking the right stuff you need to balance that too.
But if I'm being fair, I think the real problem is that each side experiences to part of the game they are bad at harder. If we stick to base, the 1v1 is killers sided, as the killer is meant to down the survivour eventually (tho most annoying survivors metas are those who make downing survivor too difficult/impossible). But, the 4v1 is completly survivor sided, not only because 4 good players are simply going to be better then 1 good player, but because killers have difficulty dealing with split pressure.
The problem tho, is that the killer constantly plays the 1v4, broken with moments of the 1v1. While survivors constantly play the 1v1, only playing the 1v4 when needed.
The killers have to worry about gens, about all survivors, about exit gates, totens, pallet spawns and everything happening in the match if they want to win, only caring aboout looping, the moment the kilelr is (in theory) better at and can have the gameplay fantasy, in short bursts when finding survivors.
In the other hand the survivors mostly have to worry about doing gens, hiding from the killer and looping, only caring for team play when a teammate needs help. The game for the survivor, especially for those who don't have enough game experience to understand the 1v4, is mostly chases, the aspect they are (in theory) worst at.
Both sides main experiences is the one they are not meant to be good at, so that theu can be good at the other one. If a survivor can't win a specific interaction in chase they will say the game is killer sided, even if they looped for long enough and a gens gets done. If the killer loses 2 gens while dealing with one survivors on the other side of the map they will say the game is survivor sided, even if he had multiple chances to stop chase and go stop those gens.
The gameplay that is mostly felt by both sides ended up inverted from the original fantasy. The survivors, who should be afraid of the all powerful killer in their own, but be able to escape by working together now think they should be able the loop a killer for 5 gens and escape. The killers, who should be dominating chases, but be outsmarted by team work now think they should be able to win without losing any gens or being body-blocked. Both sides are made to focus on the most annoying part for them, to focus in the aspect they are in a disavanteged. You can see it on what perks are popular/meta in each side: for survs they are perks that help YOU survive: adren, exhaustion perks, ds. For killers they are slowdown perks.
I think the main problems is that some base parts of the game contributes to them. Solo Q makes teamwork miserable, not only match making, but also how much the devs seem to hate clear comunication between survs. The game makes teamplay so hard that, without external software, you will be inclined to play focusing on the 1v1. On the other side map design makes starting chases miserable, as the fun 1v1 gets hidden away from the killer by a desert of pressing w. That way even without teamplay survs can easily and acidentally make the 1v4 hell if the killer doesn't focous on it.
I don't know if this all makes that much sense, but that's the feelng I get when playing DbD. I feel the game strays away a lot from the intended fantasy, forcing both sides to play mostly a game where they are in disadvantage. The game is both killer and survivor sided depending on what side of it you are, but sadly both parties get pushed to play on the one that's unfair to them. While the comunitty fights itself we lose the fact our problems are with the game at it's core, not with the other side. No matter how weak killer is you WILL feel like it's unfair to die quickly in chase because you can't see that, while losing the 1v1, that move won the 1v4.
While yes, I do agree that a match is survivor sided (tho for me that is because the 1v4 has the most control over the pace of a match, and survs are better at that), the game will feel unfair to EVERYONE, because it's core gameplay incentivises you to play the game you are bad at and only look at it.
(sorry for the big wall of text, but I am annoyed by how people don't get that more importantly then if the game is or not more leaning to one side, it FEEL like it is leaning ti the oposite side to everyone. Also sorry for any mistakes in writing, english is not my first language.)
TL;DR: The game feels unfair for both sides because it insentivises you to focus on the aspect of the game that your role is purposefully weaker at