32 thoughts on “Discussing Xenomorph's Counterplay – Dead by Daylight”
Well I’m honestly glad that he gets his power too easily, rather than him struggling to use his power. It’s typically easier to make something weaker than it is to make something stronger. At least Xeno doesn’t have the problem Singularity has, where he basically can’t use his power against good survivors.
Expecting solo que survivors to set up the perfect coordinated turrets is ridiculous. Also since turrets don’t stack anymore it’s even worse. I really don’t understand why they buffed him he was absolutely fun and fine for both sides in the ptb
Except the turrets do more than just shoot at Xeno, they alert you to its presence. The turrets were too strong in the PTB and now they still force you to run certain add-ons to not be annoying. Turrets are fine as is. If you want to give more info to survivors about the tail attack then that's fine, but it's not like Xeno is crazy strong. Even if it's only briefly, you can at least knock Xeno out of his power and make him waste a short amount of time or drop chase to get his power back.
The counterplay to xeno is two turrets at a loop, or you take a hit for the turret so that it can knock xeno out of their power, giving you a m1 killer to loop; then if they try and dive into their hole they cant crawl back up without slowing themselves down going up the same hole, so they are forced to move away or take a slow.
With nemesis tentacle, the closest comparison to xeno's tail. you have to build up two tiers to have it be useful, and even then it doesn't injure first hit. with xeno, you get it immediately and repeatedly and it injured immediately, and don't even get a warning like you do with nemesis that hes going to strike
I think turrets should have the radius around turrets be smaller for survivors. Right now I'm okay with turrets, but the main gripe I have is that I cannot put them in strategic places where they would be sort of hidden if the Killer is chasing me a certain way, and he has to turn around to destroy it, so it incentivizes survivors to put them next to walls or just below dropdowns to ensure the Xeno has a hard time getting rid of the turret if his attention is elsewhere. Right now turrets can be placed in the middle of loops with the big ass radius they have.
most of those recommendet changes are idiotic. Just make the total burn recovery hud 30-40 seconds, so you would be vulnerable as xeno after the first turret encounter, and if you chain as a survivor to a second turret, the xenommorph is most likely getting completly burned on the second turret. Give xeno in return more burnhealth like 20 % and nerf the addon so it doesnt get out of hand.
I would say there are 3 things they could tweak, A make tunnel recovery slower and make it so if you pop out of a different tunnel you gain more of your power back. so u don’t just sit down there and shimmy for a sec and get back up. B let survivors carry turrets faster because the speed feels pretty bad rn. C recovery cooldown of tail whip. if it just slowed down a hair wouldn’t make it feel as bad to get hit by because they can jump you pretty fast after one successful hit, feels even better the basic attack sometimes
2 min are enough to tell the video is worthless … this video can be done in 30 sec … Why does he have absolutely no counterplay whatsoever? simple … because hes pyramidhead on release … Impossible to dodge the range attack because then he just M1´s u entirely for free … simple change … xenomorph needs to hold his tail power just like every other killer in the game … huntress … nemi … pyramid … and so on … and now u have to actually hit ur tail … now it actually takes skill and has counterplay … turrets are worthless … entirely … xeno can destroy them instantly without even loosing his power … and even if he does it takes 6 minutes to set up turrets it takes him GENUIENLY 7 sec to crawl in and out with his power back …badly designed killer
I think neither of these options are satisfactory (though one or the other would be good).
I would do these changes:
1) Make Flamethrowers more punishing by making it do more than knock you out of your power
And I don't mean just the Crawler mode. I mean, when you're standing and still getting blasted, the turret should completely melt your power. As of now, it just knocks you out for a certain percent and you can just continue chase. After getting out of range, you can get the power back when you begin the chase again. That should not be the case. The Flamethrower should force you away, and failing that, be extremely hindering and forcing you to engage in M1 behavior for a bit until you get your power back. Given that the Flamethrowers has a chance to 'fail' so to speak and have to be set up and reset, I feel it is fair to be more punishing to the Alien if they decide to commit to a chase despite being knocked out of Crawler mode.
2) Make exiting from the same tunnel take about as long as exiting one near a hook.
This prevents 'jerking off' in the tunnel. If you hop in, you commit elsewhere, or you take the slowdown of exiting the same tunnel.
I like the lore-accurate idea that the Xeno retreats to the tunnels after being hit by the flames, but I think it would be better if they made it so that it needs to spend more time in the tunnels in order to get the power. Then, the Xeno player might actually decide to traverse the map and look for a victim elsewhere instead of just waiting or moving back and forth.
Also keep in mind this game is balanced around people who play this game for one hour in a month.
I havent played DBD in like 3 weeks so I didnt knew about the add on. You also have such a little time window- as you said- to destroy the turret with your whip attack.
I don't this Xeno needs any changes as of for now, leave it like it is now and maybe in a couple months they get back to Xeno. Don't forget Nurse is in the game, those devs man…
If Tail Whip was weaker and could be dodged just like other killers special attacks… why waste time with turrets? Why have a counter to remove the killers power? Turrets just need to be more reliable at removing the power.
Also the set up of turrets needs to be less punishing.
This is a 115% killer that has extreme map traversal, information, the ability to be close without a terror radius, and an attack power with great range/unique hit box rendering obstacles less safe/little risk…that’s a lot. And I like this killer. My biggest issue whenever anyone would talk about adding Alien to the game was that the killer would be so disappointing. They did the franchise justice. But the counterplay is awful. The tail should be high risk high reward with the turrets meaning a minor inconvenience. Maybe a partial blind effect and a short window of knocking killer out of power where the killer addons reduce that base time instead.
Flame throwers should have the same logic as skull merchants drones, where you can't put them side by side. It the easiest counterplay and you know that when you get out of tunnels 2 turrets will wait you. You should at least have them unable to aim tunnels and no be invulnerable after you exit the tunnels.
Can people stop complaining about the tail so much? Its absolutely dodgeable.
I've been playing a lot recently, on both sides. The counterplay from the survivors has drastically improved.
I miss and get juked way more than on release, the flamethrowers catch me off guard way more than before. On the other side, my teammates chases are longer vs Xeno, I see her in power less and for me honestly I'm rarely being chased by her with her crawler mode already on.
I feel like the tunnels are much more oppressive than the tail, because you can lose tempo to them quick, still they're mostly fine apart from maybe needing to be blocked for the first X seconds of a match so that Xeno doesn't get into chase faster than any killer without the need for Lethal Pursuer.
The only other thing I would change is the add-ons that make turrets less effective. I feel like some of them, especially the green one that flat out increases the flames needed to stagger, are a bit too punishing for survivors.
Any other changes should be miniscule at best. This is probably our most fun killer since Wesker, I feel like people complaining just wish it was Hux who nearly no one wants to invest time into.
I would like for them to just rework the turret related add-ons and see how it goes, because i like the idea of being able to "counter the counter" as killer if you have a good reaction time, the problem is that it's just too easy if you have any turret add-on. In fact, I think even the add-on that lets you see the turrets when you are in a tunnel is a bit too much, since if you know where a turret is beforehand there's no way you're getting burned out of your power by that turret.
Another thing i Think is worth concidering is allowing the survivors to run with turrets so they dont get screwed over for takling time to put Them in a good position as Well.
My lord “counterplay” isn’t meant to completely shut down a killers power. You say just go back into the tunnel and you’re back into your power. Okay? But now you lost a chase. What’s stopping the next person you find from running towards another turret? Not to mention the turrets have a alert system of when the xeno is getting close. Survivors just choose to butt fuck the gen right next to the tunnel when they can clearly tell it’s getting close on the scanner. When you wait last second you’re immediately put into chase while he’s runner more and if the xeno is competent they can destroy the turret in time. That’s where the “there’s no counter player” comes in because instead of running you choose to intentionally give the killer s free hit while he’s in his power. The counterplay is run tf away when the beeping gets louder on the scanner. I forget a lot of people in this game like the mental capacity to understand such basic things. Or they do but just decide to bitch to the devs because they know the devs will do it
Hey Scott, IDK if you'll reply or see this, but I love playing like you do. I try to make sure I hook everyone at least once. I got a question, though, I'm trying to play generous, but at times, you know, you can only find the guy who is on death hook at 3+ gens, you find someone clearly struggling….. Is slugging the best choice for them? You know, at least apply pressure, but not outright ruining their time, or is just hooking and killing them the more merciful way to you? I'm curious on what you do in such situations, I try to give people chances, but at times, when I can only find one person, or just the same two…. I feel bad just killing them, but I feel like slugging may be just rude seeming, when it's me just trying to give death hook person a chance…. I'm unsure, I'd love to hear what you do in such situations!!! I'm a new person to DBD, and loved your vids for years!!! Ifeel I'm skilled enough at it from a standpoint of knowledge, but I'd love to know how you make sure it's fair for everyone. I took your attitude, I don't give a single fuck on wins or losses LMAO, I just want us all to have fun while trying!!!! Thanks in the end for such amazing videos, you've made playing Wesker a blast from just memeing with people. They don't meme back or anything, but it's been so much fun actually playing, and let alone, playing like you!!! Thanks for the videos, I hope you keep it up, and I hope just knowing some random baby killer is just trying to make it fair like you play, because fuck, like how you play, is so fun!!!!!!!!!!
yeah balance definitely feels off. tail whips being this strong is whatever, if it actually mattered to use turrets, because regaining power took time. right now xenomorph is like an infinite low-range hatchet huntress with portals and it feels horrible to play against.
I don’t understand why BHVR keeps designing killers like this, the ability to hit over things is by far the most boring thing in the entire game. it takes any engagement from the survivor side and removes it completely.
Well I’m honestly glad that he gets his power too easily, rather than him struggling to use his power. It’s typically easier to make something weaker than it is to make something stronger. At least Xeno doesn’t have the problem Singularity has, where he basically can’t use his power against good survivors.
Alien is fine 🙂 in goods swf he gets bullied
Expecting solo que survivors to set up the perfect coordinated turrets is ridiculous. Also since turrets don’t stack anymore it’s even worse. I really don’t understand why they buffed him he was absolutely fun and fine for both sides in the ptb
Except the turrets do more than just shoot at Xeno, they alert you to its presence. The turrets were too strong in the PTB and now they still force you to run certain add-ons to not be annoying. Turrets are fine as is. If you want to give more info to survivors about the tail attack then that's fine, but it's not like Xeno is crazy strong. Even if it's only briefly, you can at least knock Xeno out of his power and make him waste a short amount of time or drop chase to get his power back.
The counterplay to xeno is two turrets at a loop, or you take a hit for the turret so that it can knock xeno out of their power, giving you a m1 killer to loop; then if they try and dive into their hole they cant crawl back up without slowing themselves down going up the same hole, so they are forced to move away or take a slow.
With nemesis tentacle, the closest comparison to xeno's tail. you have to build up two tiers to have it be useful, and even then it doesn't injure first hit. with xeno, you get it immediately and repeatedly and it injured immediately, and don't even get a warning like you do with nemesis that hes going to strike
I don’t think xeno needs a major nerf just give survivors enough time to run away after it misses
I think turrets should have the radius around turrets be smaller for survivors. Right now I'm okay with turrets, but the main gripe I have is that I cannot put them in strategic places where they would be sort of hidden if the Killer is chasing me a certain way, and he has to turn around to destroy it, so it incentivizes survivors to put them next to walls or just below dropdowns to ensure the Xeno has a hard time getting rid of the turret if his attention is elsewhere. Right now turrets can be placed in the middle of loops with the big ass radius they have.
there is a 4th option, 2 hits turrets
You could make it so instead of hitting you go up to and you have a prompt similar to snuffing a boon that way your forced out of your power
most of those recommendet changes are idiotic. Just make the total burn recovery hud 30-40 seconds, so you would be vulnerable as xeno after the first turret encounter, and if you chain as a survivor to a second turret, the xenommorph is most likely getting completly burned on the second turret. Give xeno in return more burnhealth like 20 % and nerf the addon so it doesnt get out of hand.
I would say there are 3 things they could tweak, A make tunnel recovery slower and make it so if you pop out of a different tunnel you gain more of your power back. so u don’t just sit down there and shimmy for a sec and get back up. B let survivors carry turrets faster because the speed feels pretty bad rn. C recovery cooldown of tail whip. if it just slowed down a hair wouldn’t make it feel as bad to get hit by because they can jump you pretty fast after one successful hit, feels even better the basic attack sometimes
I think the main thing the tail attack needs a more obvious visual/audio warning for when the windup starts
2 min are enough to tell the video is worthless … this video can be done in 30 sec … Why does he have absolutely no counterplay whatsoever? simple … because hes pyramidhead on release … Impossible to dodge the range attack because then he just M1´s u entirely for free … simple change … xenomorph needs to hold his tail power just like every other killer in the game … huntress … nemi … pyramid … and so on … and now u have to actually hit ur tail … now it actually takes skill and has counterplay … turrets are worthless … entirely … xeno can destroy them instantly without even loosing his power … and even if he does it takes 6 minutes to set up turrets it takes him GENUIENLY 7 sec to crawl in and out with his power back …badly designed killer
I think neither of these options are satisfactory (though one or the other would be good).
I would do these changes:
1) Make Flamethrowers more punishing by making it do more than knock you out of your power
And I don't mean just the Crawler mode. I mean, when you're standing and still getting blasted, the turret should completely melt your power. As of now, it just knocks you out for a certain percent and you can just continue chase. After getting out of range, you can get the power back when you begin the chase again. That should not be the case. The Flamethrower should force you away, and failing that, be extremely hindering and forcing you to engage in M1 behavior for a bit until you get your power back. Given that the Flamethrowers has a chance to 'fail' so to speak and have to be set up and reset, I feel it is fair to be more punishing to the Alien if they decide to commit to a chase despite being knocked out of Crawler mode.
2) Make exiting from the same tunnel take about as long as exiting one near a hook.
This prevents 'jerking off' in the tunnel. If you hop in, you commit elsewhere, or you take the slowdown of exiting the same tunnel.
I like the lore-accurate idea that the Xeno retreats to the tunnels after being hit by the flames, but I think it would be better if they made it so that it needs to spend more time in the tunnels in order to get the power. Then, the Xeno player might actually decide to traverse the map and look for a victim elsewhere instead of just waiting or moving back and forth.
You can place turrets behind dropped pallets, the flamethrower shoots through the dropped pallets
or even windows
Also keep in mind this game is balanced around people who play this game for one hour in a month.
I havent played DBD in like 3 weeks so I didnt knew about the add on. You also have such a little time window- as you said- to destroy the turret with your whip attack.
I don't this Xeno needs any changes as of for now, leave it like it is now and maybe in a couple months they get back to Xeno. Don't forget Nurse is in the game, those devs man…
If Tail Whip was weaker and could be dodged just like other killers special attacks… why waste time with turrets? Why have a counter to remove the killers power?
Turrets just need to be more reliable at removing the power.
Also the set up of turrets needs to be less punishing.
This is a 115% killer that has extreme map traversal, information, the ability to be close without a terror radius, and an attack power with great range/unique hit box rendering obstacles less safe/little risk…that’s a lot. And I like this killer. My biggest issue whenever anyone would talk about adding Alien to the game was that the killer would be so disappointing. They did the franchise justice. But the counterplay is awful. The tail should be high risk high reward with the turrets meaning a minor inconvenience. Maybe a partial blind effect and a short window of knocking killer out of power where the killer addons reduce that base time instead.
Flame throwers should have the same logic as skull merchants drones, where you can't put them side by side. It the easiest counterplay and you know that when you get out of tunnels 2 turrets will wait you. You should at least have them unable to aim tunnels and no be invulnerable after you exit the tunnels.
Actually just posted asking counterplay options for Xeno on reddit yesterday. It seems I'm not crazy or have a 'Skill Issue'
Can people stop complaining about the tail so much? Its absolutely dodgeable.
I've been playing a lot recently, on both sides. The counterplay from the survivors has drastically improved.
I miss and get juked way more than on release, the flamethrowers catch me off guard way more than before.
On the other side, my teammates chases are longer vs Xeno, I see her in power less and for me honestly I'm rarely being chased by her with her crawler mode already on.
I feel like the tunnels are much more oppressive than the tail, because you can lose tempo to them quick, still they're mostly fine apart from maybe needing to be blocked for the first X seconds of a match so that Xeno doesn't get into chase faster than any killer without the need for Lethal Pursuer.
The only other thing I would change is the add-ons that make turrets less effective. I feel like some of them, especially the green one that flat out increases the flames needed to stagger, are a bit too punishing for survivors.
Any other changes should be miniscule at best. This is probably our most fun killer since Wesker, I feel like people complaining just wish it was Hux who nearly no one wants to invest time into.
Can’t wait to see people parrot exactly what was said in this video instead of critically thinking😂
I would like for them to just rework the turret related add-ons and see how it goes, because i like the idea of being able to "counter the counter" as killer if you have a good reaction time, the problem is that it's just too easy if you have any turret add-on. In fact, I think even the add-on that lets you see the turrets when you are in a tunnel is a bit too much, since if you know where a turret is beforehand there's no way you're getting burned out of your power by that turret.
Another thing i Think is worth concidering is allowing the survivors to run with turrets so they dont get screwed over for takling time to put Them in a good position as Well.
My lord “counterplay” isn’t meant to completely shut down a killers power. You say just go back into the tunnel and you’re back into your power. Okay? But now you lost a chase. What’s stopping the next person you find from running towards another turret? Not to mention the turrets have a alert system of when the xeno is getting close. Survivors just choose to butt fuck the gen right next to the tunnel when they can clearly tell it’s getting close on the scanner. When you wait last second you’re immediately put into chase while he’s runner more and if the xeno is competent they can destroy the turret in time. That’s where the “there’s no counter player” comes in because instead of running you choose to intentionally give the killer s free hit while he’s in his power.
The counterplay is run tf away when the beeping gets louder on the scanner.
I forget a lot of people in this game like the mental capacity to understand such basic things. Or they do but just decide to bitch to the devs because they know the devs will do it
Hey Scott, IDK if you'll reply or see this, but I love playing like you do. I try to make sure I hook everyone at least once. I got a question, though, I'm trying to play generous, but at times, you know, you can only find the guy who is on death hook at 3+ gens, you find someone clearly struggling….. Is slugging the best choice for them? You know, at least apply pressure, but not outright ruining their time, or is just hooking and killing them the more merciful way to you? I'm curious on what you do in such situations, I try to give people chances, but at times, when I can only find one person, or just the same two…. I feel bad just killing them, but I feel like slugging may be just rude seeming, when it's me just trying to give death hook person a chance…. I'm unsure, I'd love to hear what you do in such situations!!! I'm a new person to DBD, and loved your vids for years!!! Ifeel I'm skilled enough at it from a standpoint of knowledge, but I'd love to know how you make sure it's fair for everyone. I took your attitude, I don't give a single fuck on wins or losses LMAO, I just want us all to have fun while trying!!!! Thanks in the end for such amazing videos, you've made playing Wesker a blast from just memeing with people. They don't meme back or anything, but it's been so much fun actually playing, and let alone, playing like you!!! Thanks for the videos, I hope you keep it up, and I hope just knowing some random baby killer is just trying to make it fair like you play, because fuck, like how you play, is so fun!!!!!!!!!!
Every xeno I faced has Tunneled me and I'm not cappin
yeah balance definitely feels off. tail whips being this strong is whatever, if it actually mattered to use turrets, because regaining power took time. right now xenomorph is like an infinite low-range hatchet huntress with portals and it feels horrible to play against.
By god a killer is strong? NERF IT am I right?
I don’t understand why BHVR keeps designing killers like this, the ability to hit over things is by far the most boring thing in the entire game. it takes any engagement from the survivor side and removes it completely.