Read more Dead by Daylight ➜ https://deadbydaylight.mgn.gg
Basically spread out gens more, and add LoS blockers if not possible.
http://www.twitch.tv/ScottJund
source
How I'd Fix 3-gens – Dead by Daylight
Read more Dead by Daylight ➜ https://deadbydaylight.mgn.gg
Of course the devs solution is just to set each gen to be kicked or damaged maybe 3 or 4 times before they can't be damaged or regressed anymore. Just imagine if they set it to being damaged only 4 times before it can't regress anymore, a killer tries to run Ruin and you just tap, tap, tap, tap and presto you can't regress that gen anymore. More proof that the devs don't understand the issue
This solution makes nurse,blight, and spirit even more necessary and makes m1 killers pointless. Gen spawns in corner>sprint burst pre run and the killer has to commit to losing gens.
The real answer to all our problems is (keeping her other powers intact) give Pig the dash attack that Blight has then remove Blight from the game.
Then you have a situation where pig's so powerful that you either have to nerf her or amp up other killers in the same way to make up for the power gap. So you suddenly have a Huntress who lays Trapper traps and a Ghostface throwing Clown's bottles.
Then start reworking maps to fit the play style the new hyper powerful killers have. Introduce and implement fun alternatives to the everyday (everymap) pallet loops. Things like the air blasts from Nostromo or traps for survivors to set ahead of time to defend themselves. Maybe even introduce a system where you damage generators at a few different hub locations (like having a powerbox that you damage) and not damage generators at their exact location. Also build or rebuild maps with much more verticality in play. Besides that I dunno
(P.S. I seriously wish Trapper Huntress were just a thing in game, that would be amazing. Just imagine Huntress' angry yell alongside the sharp snap of her stepping in her own trap
)
Hope you enjoyed the ramble
Making maps smaller is never a good idea. As u try to explain the walking and sitting distance on patrolling gens is wat gonna continue to happen
What if you made it so that gens start off slower to do but then get faster with each one being done. So maybe the first one is 30% slower, then they get faster to do by 15% for each one done? That way the last one is 30% faster which makes the 3-gen a lot harder to hold. Mainly recommending something like this since it's just a numbers change and would be easy to implement. Not sure what other problems may arise from this, curious to see what other opinions are on a change like this.
I still stand by the best solution to 3 gens is to just make it where after a certain amount of time passes where a gen is not completed then the furthest gen will reset and highlight for all survivors for a short time maybe even with a sound queue to notify them. You can either block one of the gens that was in the 3 gen in this case preferably the one with the least progress or just leave all 3 open and have the reset generator as well making it 4 generators. This is probably the simplest system that would combat majority of 3 gen situations. Of course there will still be times where the gen that gets reset isn't very far because the 3 gen was in the middle of the map or you might just be versing a nurse or blight who can cover the distance easier. The main point of worry with this imo would be how soon this can activate because you only want it to affect the killers who are going out of their way to hold a 3 gen and to counteract survivors trying to wait it out and stealth till it activates. That means you'd probably want some sort of equation that checks the survivors' progress on all 3 gens compared against the time since the last generator was completed and how much regression has happened to the gens. Idk what the exact equation would be but something like that with maybe more variables would hopefully make the system as unproblematic as possible. Regardless I think just about any solution would be better than the current state especially with soloq teams that can't coordinate well enough to break stronger 3 gens
One thought I've had was adding 2 gens to the map, but these 2 gens would be considered destroyed. To fix them you have to find parts around the map to fix the destroyed gen and then the gen can be worked on and repaired/regress like any other gen with having a reduced time to repair. 20 or 30 seconds reduced total time compared to the default gens. Would also give survivors a real 2nd objective to find parts.
To fix the problem is to add 1 more generator and make maps bigger. We need bigger maps not smaller maps.
No matter how gens are spread, anyone who comes in with the goal to 3-gen will 3-gen and that is a fact. The way I would fix it would be to only allow you to kick a specific generator an amount of times that no one would ever do besides for 3-genning, like 10-15 kicks and then you can't kick that gen anymore for the trial. The 3-gen perks are kick related, so eventually it will break if you can't kick it.
I agree with map redesign for gen placements cause I will absolutely guard three gens on autohaven wreckers. Otherwise I run the risk of literally losing the whole game because most survivors know to do the gen in the middle and distribute gens so that you’re left with the last 3 gens being across the ENTIRE map
Funny While watching this I legit got a Sanctum of Warth, Yamaoka Estate, Which is an H shape map with 4 gens in one leg of the map, 1 gen on the pyramid and 2 gens in the other leg. Can you guess where the killer was all game…Dora?…That's right! The leg with 4 gen in it.
Why is 3gen a problem anyways? Survivors need to do gens under pressure anyways and that's what leads to chase and hooking and all that. The game is just designed around survivor getting chased and hooked. This suggestion only makes stealth stronger and we'll have distortion urban evasion calm spirit on all 4 survivors every match. Why risk getting hooked if you get plenty of time to listen to terror radius and hide away?
the rtime for z-wall gens has come!
Why not just add a generator? Make it a 4 gen instead of a 3 gen. If the goal is to simply get rid of defending 3 gens, and emphasize chases, just add a gen.
Will that make it harder for killers? In most scenarios yes, but the counter argument to that is people that have 1000+ win streaks in the current state of the game; meaning just because the average killer player may struggle that doesnt mean that its not possible to succeed in a meta that most people argue is survivor sided. I guess in short, "git gud".
Long term the amount of chases would decrease. Killers would get hits a lot easier and feel frustrated with having to traverse so far around the map. I think universally this change would be less fun for the survivors and killers.
delete gens make chasing core gameplay
I personally don’t see 3gen as a problem
The first step of fixing 3 gens they implemented already has been great, haven’t played against any knights!
The only thing that needs to happen is curated gen spawns. Currently there are preset genspawns but there are like 25(Random ass number) and the game randomly picks them while having some rules like gen distance. Instead there should just be like 3 preset generations where the gens ALWAYS spawn in that spot. This allows for easier map knowledge retention for new players and easier balance cause maybe they fuck up a aspawn, they just need to move one generator or a new prop to block LOS etc.
Random generation will never be hand in hand with balanced.
I think the best way to fix 3 genning would be to remove it as a concept, and how i'd do that would be this: Change map generation from 7 gens to 9 gens. Increase the amount of gens needed to be completed by survivors from 5 to 6. Reduce the amount of time one generator takes to complete by about 15% so the gen time remains about the same.
Why nerf killers even more it’s just a play style chill
Your new suggested generator placements would indirectly buff Trapper, which is pretty cool
Why not just add an 8th gen while still requiring 5 to be complete? 4 gen would be inherently difficult to keep compared to 3 and with the trend towards smaller map sizes means the map is still patrollable by killers. It also solves the issue of oppressive gen regression perks by having more gens to potentially need to use them on. Killer main here, though I favor a chase style (it's the only fun thing about the game).
The issue with spreading the gens out farther like that is that it makes the mid to low tier killers worst but makes blight and nurse better. A viable strat is already run to the far side if you're getting chased to waste the killers time walking back. Corrupt intervention will just become a must have perk again. Along with deadlock and other stall perks. They would need to buff pain res etc again to account for these types of changes. Jolt would then become useless unless its range was increased also.
What if they made the map size change depending on the killer? Like maybe there’s two, possibly three different sizes, and each killer gets categorized and assigned different sized maps. For example, Myers or Trapper will be in the smallest category, killers with some mobility or aggressive ability (such as dredge or clown) would get medium-sized maps, and then lastly mobility killers (blight, nurse, probably wesker) would get the largest maps. Just an idea, lmk what y’all think
How about a new endgame scenario?
Survivors do 4 gens like normal (out of the usual 7) and that's it for gens, the remainder pop. So, instead of having to complete one of the remaining 3 gens left on the map, 3 new fuse box objectives will become active that will always spawn spread out on the map (and you'd only need to complete 1 fuse box to power the gates. It is functionally identical to a 5th gen).
Quick recap: 4/7 gen count, then -> 1/3 fuse box, then -> exit gates.
edit: I just realized that under some circumstances, this proposition (although it negates the 3-gen issue) would lead to slightly longer games than usual. This is due to the fact that each of the 3 fuse boxes cannot be interacted with until 4 generators have been completed, in contrast to how a final generator can be progressed in tandem with preceeding generators. A theoretical fuse box "stage" would essentially impose a hard-addition of time to a game by however quickly a fuse box can be knocked out, a limit that could've otherwise been circumvented by progressing the final and second-last gen simultaneously.
Or survivors could, idk, not 3 gen themselves lmao
i dislike the idea of corner gens. it sounds boring to play as both killer and survivor forcing me to go to a deadzone just to kick a gen or repair a gen. I think the regress limit is much better of an idea and takes less time to make. Just start the limiter once theres 3 gens left
Honestly keep the gen spawns the exact same but at end game one of the available gens should be consumed by the entity and the furthest completed gen becomes available again
Hi Scott, guys here.
Thanks for sharing your TedTalk Scott.
it would be simpler to limit the total amount of regression possible on a generator (like BNP does for the first 10%) when the survivors only need to do 1 generator.
or disable regression entirely when 4 gens are completed.
I fail to see how that would be worse then redesigning the gen spawns to punish killers without mobility while also dead zoning every survivor working on gens
We should make every map like old mother's dwelling,but remove the main gen. 3 genning would be finally solved.
At this point you're just arguing for something I've said years and years ago. Make hand made maps. They can even make an event out of this with community feedback/voting and adjust the map over time.
Honestly, I tend to agree with quite a few of your points, but I feel like this is just one I hard disagree with. Killers like Blight, Nurse, or Spirit exist. They don't have to spend much time commitment to gens that are further away and can already effectively hold bigger 3-gens if they want to play like that. The only thing this fixes is it stops the weaker killers from being able to do the same while the stronger killers have to play a slightly weaker 3-gen scenario instead. I genuinely feel like just spreading out gens more is actually just the bandaid fix to this as the stronger killers (and some with higher mobility than average like xeno or chucky or singularity) can still effectively hold these 3-gens, even if they are spread out further.
I feel like the solution for 3-gens isn't actually clean and simple like this. Nerfing Blight or Nurse would be good but then you can't ever make a killer with good mobility ever again because then we just get back to this point. The solution for 3-gens has to account for every possible type of killer and this solution only accounts for low mobility killers.
Personally, I think a better solution would genuinely be, as goofy as it sounds, let survivors move gens. If a gen isn't popped in say 5 minutes, let survivors slowly push gens without making progress on them. Allowing them to effectively "stall" out a 3-gen scenario and get them into a better position. As an added challenge you could also say gens that are being moved in this fashion regress at 100% speed (0.25 c/s).
I feel like thats a better solution that accounts for all killer variety that currently exists or can exist.
so what you're saying is making maps smaller is good but then we're making the distances in the map bigger so basically net zero and we're back to a blight and nurse still dont care but clown still has to walk a huge distance
I mean.. the fact that a killer feels the need to hold down a 3 gen like that kinda shows that they know gens will just be flying or that gens are flying so yea…
its way easier for them to address the kicking of gen multiple times than rework every single map that has 3 gens so your solution isn't good actually..
I think the best solution is to limit killer from kicking gens multiple times without down/possibly a hook.. like this directly address the issue and end discussion
Easy solution:
The more a killer regresses generators, the less powerful regression becomes, let's say at 250% gen progress drained, it regresses at 50% speed,, and perks become 50% less powrrful forr regressing, then it resets when a Killer hooks a survivor.
Could even give an insentive to not tunelling by making it so if you don't tunnel, you get FASTER gen regression.
hey, solution – create one more generator on another part of the map, if there's 1 gen left. Pretty straight forward and simple.
really think Scott is underestimating the effect of limiting the entrances/exits for gens, and making multiple of them this dangerous to work on.
Personally I still like my idea of scooting up gen times a lil bit, and then adding checkpoints to remaining gens as you complete the others. Basically give more opportunity to regress the early gens and have it cost more time when they are regressed with the extra time to complete them. Then that is offset by making getting the first gens done count more by giving checkpoints and locking in progress.