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BHVR’s modern map & loop design in Dead by Daylight is terrible and promotes unfun gameplay for both Survivors and Killers.
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Dead by Daylight
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Twitch Channel
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#DBD #intothefog
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I appreciate the effort they have put into remaking hadon field and the garden of joy maps, but I simply hate playing on them as killer.. as soon as the game loads and I see the map I cringe
Honestly I feel the Pig player in the first clip at a spiritual level
I feel like since breakable walls became a ”feature“ all the new and reworked main buildings have become absolutely awful. Tbh I think since 80% of them are must break they could easily be removed. Especially on maps like eyrie of cringe it makes no sense to have like 5 walls to break for your to have a somewhat “playable” map.
So some maps are definitely better, or at least fewer god loops like the old ironworks of misery map. The coldwind farm maps are always terrible, the corn is the same color as the fog, and the hay loops. Its one of the few maps I loose survivors in a lot when I'm in the middle of nowhere. There should be patches of corn fields, not most of the map be covered in corn.
With Dead dog saloon, my biggest issue is the breakable walls in the main building. Yea they were introduced with this map, but theres just too many.
Autohaven wreakers used to feel really fun to play on but not as much lately anymore. Some aspects if it got better, some definitely worse. Again, breakable walls on some maps make loops even stronger and force you to kick them.
Lastly RPD, its being changed at least, but we all know it has its problems. I'm still going to say that the art team got it spot on and it looks beautiful af
I’m not giving BHVR an excuse, but the reason I think most maps are like this now is because of nurse. If you create more maps like coal tower nurse will just bulldoze most teams on said map. I doubt they’ll do this next mid chapter since whatever twins “rework” is scheduled for it
Alot of people blame nurse for this, which is just ridicolous i don't nurse's power single handly is responsible for big bad maps, that is just stupid. I think bhvr has gotten into the mindset of "Bigger is better" or rather they want to one up every following map, and that is hurting the game, honestly i think its hurting killers more as due to their first person view they have less awareness of surrondings then survivors do in their third person view. and lets be real, no killer is abusing a infinite loop, survivors are, i feel like often times bvhr is scared of trying to make maps balanced for both sides because lets not kid ourselves survivors have the loudest and often times most toxic voice in the communtiy, if the map is balanced for both sides both sides will complain until it becomes balanced for only one of them
I can agree with how a lot of the loops are simply horrid for m1 killers. I watched a video couple weeks ago about how someone was able to vault around 32 times in the main building of garden of joy against a legion who had little way to deal with it. don't even remember if there was a dead hard used but the continues loop of the windows in that house was horrific to watch
BHVR's map design is seriously some of the worst i have ever seen lol. i get that the game that they've made is unique and none of them knew what DBD was gonna become but there's zero excuse for how horrible it can be, with the newer maps especially. it's been 6 years and they still make horrible design choices, like Eyrie of Crows and Garden of Joy. you can tell their map designers are artists but their experience actually playing the game they're building is questionable.
i don't blame the ppl on the ground floor entirely for this, though. this 100% comes across as a management problem to me, with poor instruction and direction — and probably crunch. i'd be shocked if there was no crunch involved in the poor quality here.
Its a Hide nad Seek and not a Loop and Taunt Game so yes i agree. We need Less Windows and Pallets who are safe. Gideon Meat Plant is the most frustrating and boring map everytime i get it as killer i just want to DC or AFK until the match ends. Too many abusable Loops, Perks and Items. Flashlights or Head On Bully squads are so annoying. There is not a wall to face everytime you pick up a survivor and some you can blind through. Just disable the Abillity to Blind Killers with Flashlights and increase their time to 5 minutes for Nredges Nightfall. I dont want to bring lightborn everytime or pull up the task manager after they all last second switched.
I rarely play m1 killers anymore because of how horribly balanced many maps are, it's not fun seeing survivors go to garden's main building or running to any building in bhadam knowing if I chase after them it could possibly lose me the game.
Last week, i dealt with a survivor that had Boil Over with basement in the Ironworks building. Actively camping there. Very annoying design flaw.
Edit: cannot forget that in Haddonfield and indoor maps, hook placements tend to be terrible.
Remove the RPD from the game please, it is by far my most hated map on both sides. Its all just a maze of fucking hallways with gens and loops incredibly difficult to even find.
THANK YOU KING
Bro I swear ever since yesterday I've been playing games more brutally like hooking a survivor on one side of the map where I have a solid 3/4 gen and I force THEM to come to ME because I know if I walk 10 miles across the map I am putting myself at a disadvantage because then I'll just be running in circles all game while everyone holds m1 because skilled gameplay. I have to play a way no survivor likes and I have had 5 games now in which all survivors completely throw because rather do gens they come pointy pointy clicky at the camping killer and then they'll message me something like me being "unpleasant" lol like sorry bro but if I'm going to win I'm going to force the game to be how I want it to be, not the survivors way
Hello!
Mr.Feral Frenzy Popper!
as someone new-ish (just started playing last year) who mains killer, I think the biggest trouble with current loops, buildings, etc – outside of the points you brought up – is that it kinda feels like you need to do homework in order to tell what is and isn't safe, how to run it, etc, instead of it all being intuitive to figure out.
The breakable walls in the Saloon are a great example. Not only are there 3 god walls that you have to break or else you can't chase effectively in the Saloon AT ALL, but there are ALSO a few walls there where – if you DO break them – give survivors an infinite iirc. So, you have to know the EXACT perfect walls you HAVE to break or else there's an entire section of the map that M1 killers cannot chase competent survivors on.
A balance sweep to most maps feels needed, but hopefully the buffs for killer in the next patch work as a bandaid fix.
Map size is also a thing look at RPD for an example its annoying idk wtf bhvr is doing
Well DBD is asymmetrical:D
Dude I had a meg teammate run this pig around the corner house of haddonfield with the 2 windows for 4 gens i wanted to wait around because I had mettle breakout but she eventually got facecamped
Completely agree with you. Idk why not many YouTubers are going as in depth about this problem as you are. The killer buff we are getting is good but It doesn't matter because it doesn't address the god awful map design.
fr the balance is so bad. The infinates on Haddonfield are absolutely terrible if the survivor knows about them. Im not a great looper, average at best. I also don't run DH but dead dawgs main building and Haddonfield I can loop forever on. And as killer, going against that is PAIN. It sucks how both sides have to abuse certain mechanics in order to have any possibility of a balanced game.
BHVR doesn't seem to understand the problem with infinite vaults.
They forget that a window, unlike a pallet, is not a resource that the survivor will lose after using. The mechanic of blocking a window after 3 vaults does not balance those locations either (some of these don't even get blocked because the killer loses chase because of how broken the structure is, but even if they did get blocked, it would still be stupid, because there's zero interaction between the killer and the survivor during those 3 vaults and the killer is losing a lot of time during that chase).
I think god pallets, although also unfun, are at least more reasonable than infinite vaults, because at least the survivor has to spend their precious resource to be safe, and you as a killer can take advantage of certain situations to make them use that resource earlier. Still super unfun, but really, infinites are the biggest problem imo.
Breakable walls can be a cool mechanic if BHVR reworks it to have some sort of interaction and also for these walls to not be placed in dumb places like you said, where if the wall is still there then the structure is abusable, but if it's gone then they are a death sentence.
Also one thing I'm worried about other maps that might be coming to DBD is the fact that BHVR said they wanted to make maps more "3D". Right now, every single structure that has multiple layers ends up having a way to abuse it as survivor (even if it's kinda gimmick like in Eyrie of Crows with Boil Over). Vaults in 2nd floors have to be one of the most unfun things in this game. You know the survivor is up there, you go up, and then there's two possibilities: Either the survivor is dead because it's a map like Thompson House where the vault is super close to the stairs, or it's hella broken like the new map and Haddonfield where the survivor is so safe you really can't do anything to catch up to them, and when you go down you might even have trouble knowing which direction they went because you drop so far from the survivor drop you can't even see the scratch marks. Ofc, I don't think having maps being more "3D" is necessarily a bad thing, but I really hope they don't continue to screw up like they have been doing in the last few maps that have been introduced or reworked.
100% agree.
Commenting for the algorithm, more people need to see this.
Honestly as a killer if im not playing the dredge and i see them run into the house unless I have at least a single kill already i drop chase i rather run killer shack then that shit.
another thing i’d like to point out is the optimization of new haddonfield and garden. i get a consistent 60-70 fps on every other map. garden? 30. haddonfield? 20. shits cringe
Meanwhile, Shelter Woods has like one pallet on the entire map
Honestly u even had a weaker version of the main building, u can get some much stronger windows plus that pallet at the side
100% They only test maps with Trapper/Hag because any killer that has a unique interaction with the environment like Blight, Nurse, Billy and ranged killers have a terrible time learning what has bad hitbox or even if it has a hitbox at all. I was a Nurse main from the early days of DBD but every new map would have bad interaction with her blink or you would not be able to blink at all so I stopped playing her, she is strong but I just don't want to be cheated AND DON'T GET ME STARTED ON BILLY you can not even use your chainsaw curving because every new loop has some stupid layout or invisible hitbox that stops you.
As a killer main, I appreciate someone calling it out. There's no blame given to either side, only BHVR being called out. I understand it's hard to fix sometimes, but I've had so many games nowadays where I have to drop more chases than I start because survivors have field days on the infinites. Thank you for the vid <3
finally someone said it: the new haddonfield is even worse than the original
3-4 pallets in ormond suck so much because the loop is too short
i haven't even gotten the new map yet so i can't even give my thoughts on it.
I love how there's literally nothing you can do against nurse or a ranged killer on haddonfield unless you're in a building. The entire main Street somehow has less on it than the cornfields and is almost certainly a guaranteed down against slinger, trickster, nurse, huntress, blight and so on. While the buildings are a death sentence for any killer but nurse and maybe dredge or hag.
What a horribly designed map. Once again the developers are showing the balance maps for two reasons. Gigantic so nurse and blight have some sort of difficulty on occasion.
And of course the other reason, another reason they have openly said, they value fear, immersion and environmental storytelling over balance when it comes to maps. They want to force players to sneak around which is why maps have become increasingly dark and filled with dead zones, but they also know some killers are incredibly oppressive so some maps are just loaded with safe pallets so bad players stand a chance in some chases against m1 killers
It blows my mind the map design team for this game still has a job. They could literally hire anyone off the street and they would do a better job than the lead map designer for dead by daylight. I don't like insulting developers but I feel like the person who designs maps is on paint thinner or something.
Just Nerf nurse already and Nerf blights add-ons so that way we can get smaller maps and there will be less of a power disparity between killers. Clown isn't weak because he takes forever to get downs. He's weak because he can't cross red Forest at the same speed as blight or nurse. Every map was the size of coal Tower nurse would be Nerfed tomorrow and people would hate the last 10 or so anti-loop killers they released even more than they already do.
It seems like the game is being balanced around the bad MAP design at this point. With killers that are insanely oppressive and Chase and have no counter play beyond holding W and pre-dropping but have no map pressure and still lose on these gigantic maps. Except for nurse and blight lel.
finally someone who exposes how busted the main building in garden of Joy is
Shoutout to badham preschool for beeing my most hated map due to balance and for not beeing on your list ^^