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If you want to see the DBD video focusing on the gameplay aspect of this experiment click here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zHy31D5NkOc
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Chapters:
00:00 Intro
01:17 How Did I Calculate My MMR?
04:34 If You Don’t Believe Me…
05:02 Discoveries of the Experiment
09:54 The Implication
10:43 Make MMR Visible
12:57 Final Conclusions
source
So they just added protection system for deranking… Fckng great. I was wondering why I can't drop my hag or plague mmr. All games on these specific killers and few others, are absolute sweat fests. I even lost 16 games in a row afking and still was getting comp like swf every game.
I have 4600 hrs and I was playing on high mmr against swfs every match for a long time, until game became empty, disgusting and annoying, repetitive. Tunnel, proxy, slug. Nothing more. I lost like 4-5 games over few thousands, and I'm sure people were hacking there, and I felt hoting but rage, contempt and hate most of the time. Winning over these toxic and cocky comp teams who use all possible advantages stopped bringing any pleasure or relief. I felt only contempt and annoyance bleeding out another swf and I realized that this game is not for me in that way. So I dropped my mmr to the bottom on my main, and keeping it in low silver bracket.
Game is so fun and entertaining there. I can run dumb builds, I can play fair, Im getting cute and meme survivors so often, I can do whatever I want knowing that I can win at any point if I want to, but I let go half of survivors usually and all 4 too, because I feel mercy on them, and I can't kill them after we meme together and made friendship.
Game is so much healthier than in that stinky sithole where you being taunted in teabagged at the start of the match near shack, on daily basis.
For many people this may be boring or they call me a smurf who wants easy games, but of course it's not true. I got bored of tryharding, I got bored of toxicity, and I got bored of unbalanced game poked into my face by survivors every match so I have to play perfectly while they allowed for big mistakes.
I regret nothing and recommend this to killers who burnt out too. But please, be friendly and kind to survivors on low brackets, they are innocent.
i’d say i’m around high silver low gold, 700 hour killer main
I can confirm everything he is saying is 100% true, I have been playing on a old account that was last used in 2017 so it is basically a new fresh account and everything he is saying is extremely accurate.
i still dont understand why mmr should be visible. you present the whole situation as one big conspiracy, but the players are mainly to blame.
developers hide mmr for one reason – 'experts' would appear, who would suddenly have an argument about how the game should be changed, because they are the most important as people with 'most' experience. and automatically in every thread of new players there would appear such an expert, who would gaslight them and their experience, as if it meant nothing, saying 'git gud'. because what you are forgetting here is fact that most of these people are complete idiots, who would not know what they are talking about even if they were best players in the world.
there is absolutely no advantage to visible mmr.
that said, mmr is poorly done. and thats all. top 5% of players should only play with themselves.
and generally there is one solution to the whole problem – swf should be disabled, completely, or possibly random players should get a buff that would be disabled for swf.
swf has been causing problems from the very beginning and the game is only worse because of it.
It's very very simple, show MMR and rank and prestige. Then add a fucking casual mode with no MMR so people can fucking practice new fucking builds FFS, it's not hard. If bhv gives survivors more buffs and killers more nerfs then no one will want to play killer, no killers and no game. That's why they got ride of SBMM because no one enjoyed it and it almosted killed the game.
It would have been great if your hacker friends confirmed your MMR estimates every now and then, to make sure you correctly identified your MMR bracket.
Some of the biggest DBD creators like Otz & Scott Jund seem to have pretty chill killer games most of the time, and still win almost all their games.
Why do you think that is? Are they really that good that they make tournament-level players look amateurish? Or is there some quirk with the system that matches them with lower MMR survivors?
First of all, Great video! Really enjoyed a deeper look into the system!
About this part:
11:30
"People naturally would listen to Those with the highest MMR, because they have the most credibility when it comes to balance.
Bhvr does not want the "sweatiest" people in the community to have the louder voice than anyone else…"
God, as someone who played, a lot of online pvp games, this is the cringest concept ever.. The developer, not wanting the good players to be listened too, because then everyone would realize how fucked the balance in this game is.
As I said, I played a lot of online games before, but only in DBD it seems to be bad thing, to be a good player. ( "sweaty", "tryhard" etc.)
Either grow up, stop playing, get good or stop taking shit so seriously.
Some people just wanna play the game.
what exactly will it achieve if they show MMR, middle of the curve players will get harassed and quit, and stop buying skins, same like in league of legends
So .. only four tiers?
That's odd considering how many different rank emblems there are for killer/survivor.
I think the biggest reason why BHVR isnt showing the MMR values are kinda simple: DBD Players suck.
People already are always on the lookout to blame failures onto others. If no gen pops during a 3 second chase, it wasnt the guy who went down in 3 seconds, it was the fault of the others. You can even now see what the others are up to, yet still nobody thinks about the "how". For example why didnt all 3 others got to a gen in 3 seconds? Maybe it was a player with deja vu who wanted to avoid a 3-gen scenario at the end, so they went to a better generator to benefit from the perk. Maybe someone dropped a cup of tea on the floor, maybe they did a totem for a tome, etc.
There are like a billion reasons why people do or dont do what others think they should be doing. So if you enable visible MMR the moment the guy with the 3 second chase sees that he is like 5 points higher, he claims that everything he says is correct, even though the others were doing fine, just had their own goals in mind. I see a lot of streamers making like the dumbest claims ever and keep yelling about that nobody does anything and that they do the most work, even though you can literally see that it is not true. Sure, you can manage to complete all 5 gens, but how many of those did they did 100%? maybe 1 of them at the start while all 3 of their partners were in chases. For the others, they just completed the last 10% maximum.
Also we already have seen how people react to a visible "mmr", when ranks still had "some" value to it (it never was a good gauge to see how good someone is, but it influenced matchmaking). So to just shut those people up, those values were made invisible. And ofc people want it to be visible, because they want to brag and shove their failures onto others that are "less skilled", even though i am pretty sure 99% of people would be in shock at first since they are not as high in MMR as they thought.
So the high MMR soft cap is now at 1.400 instead of 1.600? Lol, makes the "high MMR" disclaimer even muddier than it was before.
This doesn't even account for how terrible the MMR system is especially for survivors. For survivors, it literally doesn't matter if you run the killer for 5 gens and get your whole team out, if you die then it must mean you're bad so you lose MMR. Because it's purely based on whether you escape or not, the survivor who runs the killer for 5 gens and dies will lose MMR while the Blendette who baited did nothing all game but crouch in a corner will gain MMR because she escapes.
I checked the official Wiki, and apparently they made a lot of changes to MMR, how it is calculated, and the brackets. Long story short, they made it so that if you win against lower mmr opponents, you win less mmr, and if you lose against lower mmr opponents, you lose more mmr, and vice-versa for higher mmr opponents. In a way, this is closer to how rating is calculated in chess, for example. There are still brackets, but they didn't publish the official numbers on the wiki, and said they didn't plan to publish the numbers anymore.
Now, this most likely does not invalidate your experiment, it just makes the rating you calculated inaccurate, unless you did the experiment before they did the mmr changes
I just hate how imbalanced DBD is and MMR should not be a thing because of it. Sometimes I just want to chill and loop a myers for a change, but I never ever ever see one. My MMR prevents me from seeing more than half of the killer roster and it SUCKS! I have been playing since Beta and while the game wasn't perfect pre-mmr, for me MMR sure as hell sucked all the fun out of the game. Imo they should just remove MMR again completely.
Skill players who?
Each killer has their own mmr
4:15 i dont know if you counted it, but hatch escapes doesnt increaces nor decreaces the mmr right? It count as a "tie" on the 1×1 pov i think
Very informative video. Thank you for taking the time to do this for people 🙂
Mmr is still an invisible number so i really dont like assuming what bracket im in. So i won't.
At this point is really hard to balance across all mmr, but i think they should consider to add the game help they are adding in 2v8, so if generator takes to long increase speed and if generators is to fast reduce speed, if this thing really works in 2v8 they should add in the main game, that way even if a very different skill players get paired they at least have a chance and don't spend more time in queue then in game
Limit modes I heard are supposed to use main MMR but not change it after the fact but it seems like the skill bracket is extremely loose for them. It's the only time where matches feel mostly random instead of a sweat fest every game
I recently got so annoyed at losing nearly every game in row against sweaty toxic swifts when I played really well, run the right perks and tried my best every game, that I finally decided it's time to tank my MMR. I went friendly and got zero kills for around 10 to 15 games which means my mmr dropped by around 200 – 300, and what a surprise I had, finally, fun as killer again. I never thought I'd see the day, I played against good players who put up a challenge but weren't extremely sweaty, comp players with no lives. I had very few dc's or giving up as well. If you're in the same boat, I highly recommend tanking your MMR, just lose games for over an hour or so, watch tv just vibe, then play seriously. I hate to actually do this, but if you want to play killer more casually at high mmr, it's impossible. You either need to sweat your dick off or hope to god there the type that don't do gens, but if they are they will just be toxic and annoying so you lose either way.
Nah, i think from a dev perspective its to stop players from manipulating the system. To do with your point of them not wanting high mmr players to have a big narrative, its more likely because they disagree with the narrative. Bare in mind, the devs made an indie game that was tailored towards party games but because its online its not always plausable.
This issue with public and constant competitiveness is a known problem for behaviour and its understandable how they merely desire to never ever ever ever ever ever ever ever let the masses of top notch (inherently competitive and excellent players) be able to actively leak themselves into the lower ranks.
Hiding sbm is a very common thing and its not because game studios are the shadow government hellbent on spreading misinformation. Its because sweaty players amist the public community would cum absolutely everywhere if they were able to specifically manipulate their mmr to bully the common folk (outskill newish players).
This also explains the diminish in point reduction towards the lowest end of top mmr, would you rather consistently get some sweaty players seeping through the cracks just because they had a few bad games. Or would you rather keep them locked up in the high mmr at the consequence of trapping some casual players in an mmr they dont belong in.
Behaviour definitely caters towards their casual player base as their demographic (and extortionate iridescent costs) are prone to be more of a "i just want to work, get home and play a horror game and spend my money on more fun things). Pissing off this community with the game industry classic "this games getting too sweaty" is a doomsend for dead by daylights sales.
I dont fully grasp how mmr works as i was under the assumption that (with killer) each had their seperate mmr which was slightly influenced by their highest mmr killers. However, i feel as if the mmr is good at protecting me and many other players (i choose or sometimes dont choose to humbly lose matches or team because… its chill, it doesnt matter and at least i can look forward to the next match knowing ive not entered hell). And as always, mmr sucks across the board, no game is safe from this unsavoury concept… i personally believe casual games would become more healthy over time if sbmm just didnt exist or had a very loose effect. IRLproves this, what do you get when you segregate groups of people from others. You get conflict and conplaining between groups, elitism and the communities within communities start to massively differ to the overarching community (which then will restart the loop again, more conflict more elitism and more communities start to differ etc etc)
TL,DW: Wants to face weaker players and always win. This is horseshit.
i think everything would be sm easier for everyone if there was a casual mode and a separate ranked mode
My man really wants to invite neuroticism into his life.
I think you're wildly off the mark with the whole "BHVR want's to control the narrative!" because…They don't need to? They control the very game itself. What do you genuinely think will happen if BHVR "loses control" of the "narrative"? They'll be forced to make changes because people will complain? I hate to break it to you, but history has shown time and time again that BHVR don't give two shits about community complaining.
I wish MMR would be visible, just so all those smug people online with Dunning Kruger's would get a reality check. I am not claiming to be a pro player, it's just aren't people tired of hearing obvious bullshit like "I run no gen slowdown and I consistently get easy 4k's with 2-3 gens left"? They genuinely believe that they're some top tier players because there's a red "rank 1" on their profile and that they know better than people who played since beta.
This pretty much confirms a lot of opinions I had already. The problem isn't the idea of SBMM itself, it's how BHVR has implemented it. Ideally, people should not be sorted into "brackets", it should be a smooth gradient, a bell curve where the majority of people are in the middle MMR range. The main problem in my opinion is threefold; one, solo and SWF share a queue, their MMR points are considered equal despite one being much easier. Two, the cap is not only low, but completely arbitrary. And three, MMR points for both sides are rewarded for gameplay that many do not consider skillful. It's not uncommon for the least skilled survivor who hid all game to get out, while the ones who worked their ass off get tunneled out early and are considered losers.
If these basement dwellers harassed contributors because their narrative was proven wrong by hard data, then that really does prove this community is the biggest piece of shit in gaming. I have been through some pretty bad communities but DBD really is the cake taker. Grow the hell up you goons.
Mmr may be in the game doesnt mean it works 🤣
Wait there is an MMR system in DBD ??
I really miss the old emblem system.
3:44 a lost opportunity of inserting Wesker's face lmao
will never happen, bhvr too busy making feng skins
13:00 Tell me pls whats a good time to play survivor / killer for EU
great video man! sometimes I wanna go back to rank based MM. it wasn't perfect but at least it was more transparent
:99000 omg YES!!!! babe wake up!!! a new choy video dropped on why sbmm is the most egregious half baked idea ever thrown into dbd!!!!!!!!
I don't know how accurate it is. Last year i had a win streak of 40 with ghost face and 60 with myers after i lost motivation. I had not the feeling that survivors got that much better. Of course i had to tunnel frequently to win games and used the best perks available.
I feel like silver should go to 1700, but overall, it looks solid. Still hate, mmr though
This proves hens wrong and I LOVE IT
I saw most of the experiment live and I agree completely.
We know this will not be visible in the future but it (hopefully) provides perspective.
What is possible is showing who ready together, this would help the health of the game imo.
The people that are afraid of MMR being visible are the same people that are afraid of their ignorant opinions being called out in a credible way.
The reason why people say mmr doesn't exist is because its not really hard at all to hit that 1400 soft cap. Ive always seen mmr as a way to just separate brand new players from more experienced players. That is why I roll my eyes whenever someone uses "High mmr" as some sort of qualifier so their point is somehow more valid. I can say for pretty much certain that most people don't want an accurate mmr system, Id rather my queue times not take 20-30mins.
As far as should they show mmr? I honestly don't know. A part of me wants to show people that it doesn't matter to a lot of people, but another part of me doesn't want to give the "As a high mmr player" crowd more fuel for their stupid takes.