i have always really liked how the endgame collapse works. 99ing gates is a weird but interesting form of skill expression that adds to the game's depth without being in one side's favor. Survivors get the advantage of the clock still being on their side, but in return, the killer has more time to snowball in the endgame, where snowballing is the most likely to happen. As a killer, if I see a 99'd gate, I know i can still secure a 4k bc the team isn't gonna leave people behind. I wouldn't want the gates to regress as a killer main bc it would incentivize selfishness even more or force more coordination to juggle the 99% on a game with a huge communication problem
I don't think gates should regress. The EGC was never intended to benefit either side, but as it is it already does favor the killer by either putting survivors on a timer, or forcing survivors to leave gates at 99% which can come back to haunt them sometimes. The 99 gates mechanic, while admittedly a bit awkward, is not an issue imo.
Hey Scott, I found something on the forums. It's Thanatophobia change, but it includes Exit gates. Do you have any thoughts on this one? I'm bothering you, because you have exposure… and I actually like this change!
Thanatophobia: For each injured, dying or hooked Survivor the perk gains 2 tokens. For each dead survivor, the perk receives 1 token.
For each token all Survivors receive an Action Speed penalty of 0.75 / 1 / 1.25 % to Repairing, Sabotaging, Cleansing, Blessing and Opening both Chests and Exit Gates, stack-able up to a maximum of 6 / 8 / 10 %.
Thanatophobia is now only half as potent at it's strongest. (Nerf)
It provides slightly bigger penalty per injury (Buff)
It now affects more actions – most notably the Exit Gates. (Buff)
It now grants half of it's value when survivor is dead. (Buff)
This is a hard cope. The amount of times it cost them rather than saved them is more 🤣
No, and I play almost exclusively solo que when I do play survivor and I can say without shadow of a doubt it almost never costs me or my team mates to have the door 99
If we’re gonna talk about exit gate regression. It should just be tied to a perk. Like you mentioned about what a 99% gate costs sometimes anyways. It doesn’t make sense to make it a base mechanic. Also because of the fact again killers can just open it if they really wanted to and solo is still the majority player base as far as survivor goes. It wouldn’t make solo that much worse than they’ve already made it. It would effect it to some degree.
Having it regress to 0% would probably be too much, but letting it regress to 75% or so after a delay would probably still be fine. That way you can still open the gate if you have time, but if you gamble on delaying the EGC and the killer chases you to the gate, you'll be at a disadvantage.
The implicit point of endgame is to be a mad dash it’s you gotta get out quick and your now on a time crunch and every second counts going to save that last person should be a risk to yourself survivors should have the choice of not being able to open the exit gates instantly at the end or have to deal with the time limit it’s simple as that
One thing I want to contribute to this conversation: the new map coming out with The Knight has unique exit gates. Rather than a sliding door, the gate itself is a portcullis that rises upward when it opens, which means the actual window of time when a survivor can slink through the gate after opening it should come sooner (they might even be allowed to crouch-walk under it). A survivor running to the gate from the right side of it wouldn't need to go around the sliding door on the Knight's home map like they would on others.
I'm curious to see how much of a difference this will make when it comes to precise scenarios like what Scott talked about at 2:10
Maybe add it as a perk this idea being basekit would be too much and wouldn’t punish swfs at all and probably just punish solo queue players and new players having it as a perk or additional part to a perk would be a good idea like maybe add it to remember me as a secondary affect. What if EGC got a rework to make it more hectic?
In practice the main thing this would accomplish is punishing solo queue. If a progress bar for each door was added to the h.u.d. then it could be an interesting idea to consider.
The amount of times my swf 99s gates because of "blood warden" (which happens in like .01% of games) makes me want to throw my keyboard in the trash because it ALWAYS gets somebody killed.
Also, with things like no way out, gate regression would be extra painful especially for solo queue players imo
I had the most absurd example of a 99'd gate killing three from a full team at autohaven.
It was against a pyramid head, who was chasing an injured survivor, I was nearby with the flashlight so I stayed close. Survivor gets downed, I made the save and ran in the direction of a gate I knew was being worked a minute before.
The other 2 survivors had 99'd the gate, but were healing at the OPPOSITE side of a jungle gym from the gate.
So we left with nowhere to run, the phead got a great shot and knocked down 2 with his power, one got hit with final judgement, the other hooked, I got pushed away from the gate by the killer and downed. Final guy just left us (the one who 99'd the gate and doomed us)
If he was deliberately sandbagging then it was an absolute masterclass.
The actual problem is survivors that need to be escorted out, most of the time EGC is used for toxicity rather than actual gameplay, it's a waste of time.
I'm pretty sure if they reworked remember me so it regressed exit gate switch progress, that'd be pretty dope. Feels a bit too oppressive for basekit though.
What if they did something similar to gates to what they did to sabotage? Sabo originally was a long process that could be 99, but they change it to be a lot quicker, but the progress wouldn't save. What if gates were like this? Maybe opening would take 8 seconds, for example, but the progress won't save if you let go off of it.
The thing about 99 is that it removes the tension of EGS and I just want that mechanic to feel more dangerous.
I'm open to this but it should regress slowly imo. It wouldn't be extremely debilitating but also it would make perks like Wake Up and Sole Survivor more valuable.
Idk if survivors managed to 99 a gate the kinda "deserve" that advantage as they essentially archived their goal and should have the upper hand. Instead killers should be more oppressive in the time prior.
To me it should be a perk: after letting go of the exit gate switch for 3s the exit gate progress reduces by X per seconds. The point of the delay is so that survivors need to stay a bit to check if it regress, loose time if there isn't the perk. Then if they don't fully open it they are in danger later when they'll run to escape. And if they do open it you have the advantages of egc plus you can force a bloodwarden.
I think this would impact soloq more then it would impact swf. I can already imagine having dedicated person that would keep the gate 99'd which would be a lot easier to coordinate in swf then soloq.
I think there should be something in effect to prevent 99'ing exit gates because regardless of whether or not it's strong (it is), 99'ing gates is an exploit. I've been flamed for expressing that opinion before because people see the word "exploit" and immediately equate it with "cheat," but exploits by nature involve using mechanics that exist in the game. In the case of 99'ing gates; it is, in essence, using game mechanics in an unintended way to bypass the intended gameplay state (endgame collapse.) It's just like when people could alter their fov to look over walls. It's something the game does technically allow, but is not intended and provides an unfair advantage.
lmao nice outro, scott.
Anything to stop gates from being the death of me
i have always really liked how the endgame collapse works. 99ing gates is a weird but interesting form of skill expression that adds to the game's depth without being in one side's favor. Survivors get the advantage of the clock still being on their side, but in return, the killer has more time to snowball in the endgame, where snowballing is the most likely to happen. As a killer, if I see a 99'd gate, I know i can still secure a 4k bc the team isn't gonna leave people behind. I wouldn't want the gates to regress as a killer main bc it would incentivize selfishness even more or force more coordination to juggle the 99% on a game with a huge communication problem
I don't think gates should regress. The EGC was never intended to benefit either side, but as it is it already does favor the killer by either putting survivors on a timer, or forcing survivors to leave gates at 99% which can come back to haunt them sometimes. The 99 gates mechanic, while admittedly a bit awkward, is not an issue imo.
That would just shorten games so w/e maybe even a good thing.
Hey Scott, I found something on the forums. It's Thanatophobia change, but it includes Exit gates. Do you have any thoughts on this one? I'm bothering you, because you have exposure… and I actually like this change!
Thanatophobia: For each injured, dying or hooked Survivor the perk gains 2 tokens. For each dead survivor, the perk receives 1 token.
For each token all Survivors receive an Action Speed penalty of 0.75 / 1 / 1.25 % to Repairing, Sabotaging, Cleansing, Blessing and Opening both Chests and Exit Gates, stack-able up to a maximum of 6 / 8 / 10 %.
Thanatophobia is now only half as potent at it's strongest. (Nerf)
It provides slightly bigger penalty per injury (Buff)
It now affects more actions – most notably the Exit Gates. (Buff)
It now grants half of it's value when survivor is dead. (Buff)
This is a hard cope. The amount of times it cost them rather than saved them is more 🤣
No, and I play almost exclusively solo que when I do play survivor and I can say without shadow of a doubt it almost never costs me or my team mates to have the door 99
They should add that to "remember me"
If we’re gonna talk about exit gate regression. It should just be tied to a perk. Like you mentioned about what a 99% gate costs sometimes anyways. It doesn’t make sense to make it a base mechanic. Also because of the fact again killers can just open it if they really wanted to and solo is still the majority player base as far as survivor goes. It wouldn’t make solo that much worse than they’ve already made it. It would effect it to some degree.
Having it regress to 0% would probably be too much, but letting it regress to 75% or so after a delay would probably still be fine. That way you can still open the gate if you have time, but if you gamble on delaying the EGC and the killer chases you to the gate, you'll be at a disadvantage.
did you pick boy or girl?
The implicit point of endgame is to be a mad dash it’s you gotta get out quick and your now on a time crunch and every second counts going to save that last person should be a risk to yourself survivors should have the choice of not being able to open the exit gates instantly at the end or have to deal with the time limit it’s simple as that
no.
One thing I want to contribute to this conversation: the new map coming out with The Knight has unique exit gates. Rather than a sliding door, the gate itself is a portcullis that rises upward when it opens, which means the actual window of time when a survivor can slink through the gate after opening it should come sooner (they might even be allowed to crouch-walk under it). A survivor running to the gate from the right side of it wouldn't need to go around the sliding door on the Knight's home map like they would on others.
I'm curious to see how much of a difference this will make when it comes to precise scenarios like what Scott talked about at 2:10
What about if when the exit gates were powered, they gradually open over a couple of minutes once you've pressed the button.
It'd be like a big game of hide and seek
A better idea is to add a killer perk that makes it so exit gates need to be opened fully or the progress resets.
Maybe add it as a perk this idea being basekit would be too much and wouldn’t punish swfs at all and probably just punish solo queue players and new players having it as a perk or additional part to a perk would be a good idea like maybe add it to remember me as a secondary affect. What if EGC got a rework to make it more hectic?
Haha that ending
In practice the main thing this would accomplish is punishing solo queue. If a progress bar for each door was added to the h.u.d. then it could be an interesting idea to consider.
Add it to Ruin and have it work like NOED
The amount of times my swf 99s gates because of "blood warden" (which happens in like .01% of games) makes me want to throw my keyboard in the trash because it ALWAYS gets somebody killed.
Also, with things like no way out, gate regression would be extra painful especially for solo queue players imo
If not in a swf, 99% gates kill WAY more people than EGC!
I think BHVR still needs to nerf survivors running speeds since last 6 fucking years.
Just make 4.0 m/s to 3.5 m/s so survivor get caught easier.
good ol fashioned games on switch can always rely on them to play at stable 30fps
Why not make a perk regress the gate instead of it being base kit
The killer should be able to pop goes weasel the gate
Just make the gate take 1-3 seconds more to open.
EDIT: I mean after the bar is done and it's begun opening.
Perk that regress gates, but also has another bonus because as is would be useless
99 gates are for cowards. I always open gates regardless of game state
I had the most absurd example of a 99'd gate killing three from a full team at autohaven.
It was against a pyramid head, who was chasing an injured survivor, I was nearby with the flashlight so I stayed close. Survivor gets downed, I made the save and ran in the direction of a gate I knew was being worked a minute before.
The other 2 survivors had 99'd the gate, but were healing at the OPPOSITE side of a jungle gym from the gate.
So we left with nowhere to run, the phead got a great shot and knocked down 2 with his power, one got hit with final judgement, the other hooked, I got pushed away from the gate by the killer and downed. Final guy just left us (the one who 99'd the gate and doomed us)
If he was deliberately sandbagging then it was an absolute masterclass.
1:10 And allow them to heal and get a free escape by holding W to the gate LOL
Gate red lights should light up at 5%, not 20%.
The actual problem is survivors that need to be escorted out, most of the time EGC is used for toxicity rather than actual gameplay, it's a waste of time.
I'm pretty sure if they reworked remember me so it regressed exit gate switch progress, that'd be pretty dope. Feels a bit too oppressive for basekit though.
What if they did something similar to gates to what they did to sabotage? Sabo originally was a long process that could be 99, but they change it to be a lot quicker, but the progress wouldn't save. What if gates were like this? Maybe opening would take 8 seconds, for example, but the progress won't save if you let go off of it.
The thing about 99 is that it removes the tension of EGS and I just want that mechanic to feel more dangerous.
Unpopular Opinion: Exit gates should completely regress when no one is holding the switch
I'm open to this but it should regress slowly imo. It wouldn't be extremely debilitating but also it would make perks like Wake Up and Sole Survivor more valuable.
Idk if survivors managed to 99 a gate the kinda "deserve" that advantage as they essentially archived their goal and should have the upper hand. Instead killers should be more oppressive in the time prior.
To me it should be a perk: after letting go of the exit gate switch for 3s the exit gate progress reduces by X per seconds. The point of the delay is so that survivors need to stay a bit to check if it regress, loose time if there isn't the perk. Then if they don't fully open it they are in danger later when they'll run to escape. And if they do open it you have the advantages of egc plus you can force a bloodwarden.
I think this would impact soloq more then it would impact swf. I can already imagine having dedicated person that would keep the gate 99'd which would be a lot easier to coordinate in swf then soloq.
I think there should be something in effect to prevent 99'ing exit gates because regardless of whether or not it's strong (it is), 99'ing gates is an exploit. I've been flamed for expressing that opinion before because people see the word "exploit" and immediately equate it with "cheat," but exploits by nature involve using mechanics that exist in the game. In the case of 99'ing gates; it is, in essence, using game mechanics in an unintended way to bypass the intended gameplay state (endgame collapse.) It's just like when people could alter their fov to look over walls. It's something the game does technically allow, but is not intended and provides an unfair advantage.
yes. simple
That hurts survivors. No.
99ing the gates always struck me as a bullshit way around the intended endgame rush. They should regress.