Read more Dead by Daylight ➜ https://deadbydaylight.mgn.gg
this is interesting. what are your guys’ thoughts on it?
http://www.twitch.tv/ScottJund
source
Read more Dead by Daylight ➜ https://deadbydaylight.mgn.gg
this is interesting. what are your guys’ thoughts on it?
http://www.twitch.tv/ScottJund
source
Yeah as a solo survivor player.
DC penalty is ass and made me quit the game.
There is enough BS builds and stupid teammates to go around.
I don't want to have to play 30 minute long game where my teammates are completely useless and no chance of surviving unless i sneak edge map for 10 minutes to stall the last survivor out.
Now people will just die on hook immediately instead of DCing just to really turbo toss your games. So it'll still be a 3v1, no bot replacement lol
I don't think we should penalize people by making them play against only bots for playing characters bhvr intentionally designed poorly. If what's considered "unfun" and "unhealthy" for the game is this strong of a deterrant for people to play against 2 whole killers, we should be fucking with bhvr until they fix them
I feel like we're barking up the wrong tree with knight/skull merchant players. They are literally just playing the game like everyone else, it just so happens their character is designed in a way where you can only win by draining the life force and patience from your opponents.
Gigachad take regarding Skull Merchant and Knight and shit perma-playing against bots only lol
the fact there is a dc penalty at all when bots are being released is just plain ridiculous. this isnt a competetive game lol it takes less than 5 minutes most times to find one.
I think you summed it up pretty well Scott. I have been having this discussion quite frequently and it does come down to which side you play the most it seems. I even had one person admit they were worried about the bots skills.
Make report system actually do something. It's not an easy task, but that would actually alleviate many problems in the game, I feel. Ragequitting in particular.
It blows my mind that some people can justify a rage quit ruining the experience for the other 4 players.
This explains the shameful situation this community is living.
it doesn't matter if the bots are better than the players, it just doesn't feels good to play with a bot, that's the reason I quit dbd mobile too
we love you scott you always have the most based opinions about the game <3
10:30 This is a big reason why you could say the community is so toxic. People get very spiteful and take things out on players that don't deserve it. Because they can't take it out on the person that left, or someone from a previous match; they take it out on the next poor unsuspecting players.
And then the cycle repeats itself.
there are times people get kicked out of the game without DCing whatsoever and still get penalty like they did DC, this is something that happened to me and a few friends so i would say since bots are taking over, the game shall give you the option to rejoin the match when you got kicked instead of getting punished for something you had no control over so when you rejoin, you take the spot back from the bot itself – it's on mobile and it's very easy and so i think it shall be on PC/console too as it's unfair you get a penalty when the game kicked you out – i am not saying this happens to EVERYONE as many DO DC and since bots take over.. idk if they shall be given option to rejoin or deserve a penalty, what do you guys think?
EDIT: am i the only one that runs into Knight and Skull that don't camp nor 3gen? 🤔
Remove dc penalty for as long as the skull merchant is in the game in her current state. I don't want to play 35 minutes boring ass games
I agree everything you said…
Personally i think you should only be able to try/ succeed at getting yourself off the hook if you have luck interacting with your game or active deliverance. I think if it worked this way then they could just take the option away unless the players have these in their team build. i could be obviously missing something cause i dont generally balance games but in my mind in this way the only way to leave would be to then disconnect thus to me solving that problem. Impartial to a concede option where it is brought up as a sort of team vote and then those who want to leave can do so and are replaced while if half/the majority want to stay then they stay and the game continues with a bot those who want to stay can stay and those who want to leave can leave with no penalty. I think a penalty should come about if there is a certain number of dcs in a row. like you get one or 2 free ones but if the game finds your just leaving 6 games in a row then you get a penalty. Just throwing out numbers and ideas.
Just imagine playing League of Legends and defending "it is okay to disconnect if you play against Teemo because it is miserable".
And no, bots are not better than average player. For sure there are really bad players in soloQ but there are others that aren't, and in long terms, you will get more wins with a human rather than a bot.
The SM debate is worthless as even if you play a chase oriented build they D/C. Damn, I even saw trends on twitter saying that is OK to D/C against wesker which is one of the best designed killers.
In the end, is just survivors willing to D/C the moment they cannot play a bully simulator game.
People who don't wanna play the game shouldn't be allowed to play the game.
i hate people DCing. imo it should be punished, even with bots. allowing DCs will cause this to be a cultural thing, which no one really likes.
imo they even should increase the DC penalty, IF bhvr someday removes good reasons to DC (like getting slugged for no reason and having nothing to do for 4 minutes or 4man swf bully squads refusing to repair gens and just flashlight/head on a struggling killer etc). most likely that won't happen, so leave penalties as is… but absolutely don't remove them.
what if we add killer bans from survivor and perk bans from killer?. A mechanic to ff will be really interesting tho
I must be one of the only weirdo's out there that actually like play as and against a condemn Sadako, it's a nice change of pace from the normal gameplay, but my matches like those don't usually last much more than the norm so that may be why I feel this way.
They just need to add a forfeit option already, unlike that dumb dev that said it wasn't needed, it deeply IS. Think about a votation system like Identity V. After all survivors go down, make them able to vote to ff, instantly sacrificng them and giving the killer the bloodpoints they would have gotten if they hooked normally. I've lost count of how many times I've had to sit for 4 minutes until i bleed out because my team left through the gate and the killer is "worried' ill wiggle off.
The solution to survs killing themselfs is for killers to hold the game hostage by not killing them and then bodyblock hatch.
Think an out of the box mechanic is probably the best solution.
Stamina.
If survivors have a stamina bar, you can give players a finite amount of attempts to unhook themself, but that does not speed up the hooking process, allowing players to off themself, leaving teammates in a 3v1. Instead, the hook timer takes the same amount of time regardless if you try unhooking yourself or not.
Instead, the risks leave the player with less stamina if they do try to unhook themself, and/or are successful, or when someone eventually comes to unhook them. Your chances of being immediately killed again off hook, go up, because your speed is hindered by your lack of stamina to run away to a safe place.
Stamina also counters hold-w, because burning through your stamina entirely, is less efficient, than feathering it as efficiently as possible, around a tile.
Also means that player positioning is important, because players can't just run across map to help a teammate, because now their remaining stamina offers less survivability, if they've nearly burnt through it all.
Stamina should be able to replenish when walking or standing still, much like exhaustion.
And to go a step further, running out of stamina should give the player exhaustion, that way players have a finite amount of time to use their exhaustion perks – also requiring them to run and loop more efficiently.
Now there's room for more skill expression.
I think they need to have other methods of not having to face killers or maps people are going to baby rage over. Change map offerings or have some sort of gameplay earned "ban" system so you can avoid a certain killer one in (three?/five?) games or something. This would be a step in the right direction, people will still get upset at teammates though
I'm on and off when it comes to agreeing with Scott's takes but DAMN this is an excellent video talking over all of the points of the issue and the final conclusion is amazingly put together. I don't think after watching this video anyone could disagree. Wonderful take and video +1
Crackpot theory is correct
honestly, let me play the game vs bots completely. Let me play as a survivor with 3 survivor bots and a killer bot, or as a killer vs 4 bots and let me get trophies, I don't give a shit, the worst part of this multiplayer game are the other players
I’m worried the bots will be too good. I played against some bots as legion in customs and it’s like they could see me through walls. No mind games work. Like standing behind a jungle gym with the red light pointing away. They’ll never come toward you. The second I double back from behind a wall they change direction. So the only way I get them is by brute force.
People DC way more on first down/hook then they do for legit reasons.
Give people 3-5 DCs a week and unable to kill themselves on hook. You get 3, then you can fuck off till next week so everyone else who actually wants to play the game can at least enjoy the weekend, free of the selfish pricks. If your internet/computer crashes more then 3-5 times a week, get better internet or a better computer.
Another option is display how many recent DCs people have in the lobby and people can dodge them if they want to. They'll eventually be unable to find games and be stuck in selfish prick purgatory.
I say this as mostly a solo queue player. Tired of jackasses wasting my time.
I think DC penalty should be in the game but it should be a limited per day or week. I personally dont see the point in DCing at all. I understand that you might not like say skull merchant, knight, etc and would rather not play agent them but how can people find new ways to play those killers in other ways if they dont get to play as them in the frist place.
Maybe implement a system to vote to forfeit match or something. If all survivors say yes match ends. I don’t know if that would be fair or if you could balance it to where it can’t be abused, but it’s a thought
11:00 omfg I literally had this experience the other day. Bill attempted to sandbag Claudette and when he went down to Clown, he insta DC'd. I went up to the clown, like you described, and pointed at a hook because wtf is the point in any of us playing that match out? He refused to hook me and just kept downing me while Feng kept healing me and picking me up over and over again. I decided to hold L1 to prevent Feng from picking me up…. So clown kept picking me up, dropping me, picking me up, dropping me, then downing me again once i wiggled off.
Its ABSURD that BHVR allows thos sort of shit but locker saves are a big no no…. okay
I agree with your statements and the slugging issue and then hooking right before bleed out is a huge issue just because it wastes so much time and is completely unneeded. But going off you're previous point about going against a survivor who DC's against a wraith is a little bit understandable. Going against a wraith is really annoying. The only reason why it's annoying is because every single wraith plays the same and I'll stand to this. Every wraith will either camp, tunnel, or do both. Within my time playing dbd (probably a span of 5+ years off and on) I've maybe gone against 1 or 2 wraiths that dont camp and tunnel. They can go across the map within seconds, can stand still for about 10 seconds and go completely invisible, can't be blinded or stunned with a flashlight while cloaked. So most likely, if someone gets hooked from a wraith and doesn't dc, they're probably gonna sit on hook for about 50 seconds, get unhooked, then probably be unable to make a pallet or make a 50/50 pallet and go down again just to get hooked immediately or the person that got save goes down and it restarts with them. I personally think wraith is one of the easiest killers to play in public matches with or without camping/tunneling.
I'm not for or against the penalty, but 2 thoughts I had while watching this video were:
1. I do think I wouldn't like playing against/with bots over humans (obviously I don't mean the humans that give up, DC, etc.) and I think that having no DC penalty will definitely make DCs more frequently and thus bots more common in lobbies. For instance, if I look at myself, I've had games where I saw survivors crawling and not touching a gen, ever, or the killer was one I really disliked and I felt like DCing but I wouldn't because I don't want to get penalised and having to wait to play again. But without a DC penalty, I think in those scenarios I would then DC thus making bots more frequently. And as a killer saying I won vs 3 survivors and 1 bot is less 'fun' as opposed to 4 humans.
2. On the other side, when you started mentioning your crackpot theory, I thought you were going for more positivity in the community but you actually went a different direction. So to explain my thought here, I do believe that, despite this game being toxic landscape, having a free DC option would potentially bring more positivity into the game as a whole. Because now when I have one of those games (where survivors maybe dont touch gens, or its the most boring killer, etc.) I can just DC and go play next game without having to deal with those frustrations, and this will likely result in me having a better time playing the game as opposed to when I have to stay in the lobby and these frustations just build during the game, and then potentially even meet the other people in post-game chat where frustrations and emotions might make it a bit hostile, annoying, etc.
Just some thoughts I had during this video. Still dont know whether I'm for or against the DC penalty but yeah
Casual players want to play against other people who share or are of lesser skill than themselves so they can enjoy the game more than getting a few fun games out of an evening of play.
People will always figure out a way to sandbag matches regardless of what it is. This is just a product of multiplayer not a dbd problem. The best way we've come up with is to create a functional mmr system and remove their ranks when they dc
For me it all stems from BHVR making so that ranks no longer have any meaning. What is the incentive for someone to keep playing, even if they are a bit triggered, if not for the ranks? Everything after that is just a consequence of a bad system. You can’t force a survivor to stay, no matter how many penalties they enforce, the survivor can always go AFK or just hugs the killer to kill themselves.
To put it simply:
People do not like playing multiplayer games where their team mates end up being bots. Part of the fun playing multiplayer games is being able to play against other survivors that are actually real people. Even if the bots tend to trend better and more useful than the people who end of disconnecting, the feeling of playing with AI instead of a real team mate is discouraging to a lot of people that play online games. This trends to be true in games like L4D2, Mortal Combat, Battle Royals, etc where just because you're playing with a more skillful AI, it does not mean that you will be having fun when knowing that though playing a multiplayer game, some of those people are just bots. Matches that tend to have DCs in online games usually cause the others to outright DC too, wasting the entire match.
That being said, I still think that the DC penalty should exist in the game because the way it's being described is black and white. Yes, if we stop people from DCing many will simply kill themselves on hook or throw the game. BUT there is still MANY people I would argue that exist in the spectrum of players that DC that DO get discouraged from throwing/dcing with the penalty system on. Even if that group of people is smaller than the people who will throw anyways, I think it's important that as a community we do not encourage the behavior of people throwing tantrums and disconnecting from matches because they don't agree with everything that happens in-game.
Bots should be intended to help those occasional games where somebody dcs by replacing them and not completely changing the dynamic of the match. However, they should not be treated as an acceptable solution to everyone dcing without penalty. I genuinely believe that removing the DC penalty and adding bots will hurt the game's playerbase because again, people do not like playing matches with a bunch of AI and DCers. And I also believe that removing the DC penalty and adding bots will encourage more people than ever before to disconnect from matches. It will negatively impact the game health.
I think a DC penalty should stay because the DBD community can't be trusted without it, 95% of all matches would have at least one disconnected player, and the appeal of dbd is playing with other people, not bots.
6:09 I never found Hillbilly fun to play against. So you saying "He's the most fun." is your subjective opinion. The fact I played against so many of them just added to my dislike of playing against him. There was a point in time where I was tracking the Killers I played against and out of set of fifty games thirty-four of them had been Hillbilly. In that set was a string of eleven games in a row against Hillbilly, against five different Killer players over the course of two days. (That was back when I was playing more than only one Survivor game a day.)
As for who I'd rather play against? T1 Shape (on an indoor map), Shape without extended T3, Huntress on a semi-open map, non-face camping Cannibal,. Pig, Clown, Deathslinger, or Executioner. Only Killers I hated more than Hillbilly were Nurse and Blight and Blight was really only because of oversaturation. He had been the next highest in the set of fifty game at twelve.
Making it so people can't kill themselves on hook won't solve anything, they will just tab out and do something else, letting themselves be downed and hooked at the Killer's leisure. Really Killer mains should want the penalty removed so that was people just disconnect and there is a bot instead of a Survivor just standing in one place all game.
11:10 I uninstalled the game because around seventy-five to eighty percent of my Survivors games were against face camping and slash or tunneling Killers so I wasn't having fun in that role. Even though I was a Killer main I still wanted to play both roles. But even as playing Killer only about maybe a third of my games were actually fun. My MMR was super wacky so I'd get really inconsistent games where one match as Mirror Myers I'd get babies who didn't know how to do skill checks and the very next game with the same load out I'd get comp players and not stand a chance. I just wasn't having fun so I stopped playing.
Not going to lie, if they just straight up removed the disconnect penalty forever I'd come back to the game. Because then I wouldn't have to worry about going against the five gen face campers or the turbo slug Nurses or whathaveyou and could just move on to the next game without having to wait. And with the bots in the game I'd not feel too bad about doing so.
I think I agree with you but it would work better if the game was more killer sided because killers have to deal with survivors no matter what
Playing killer and using lethal pursuer got so many disconnects, when someone gets touched in the first 10 sec they rage quite immediately