36 thoughts on “Why Have 3 Gens Gotten So Much Worse? – Dead by Daylight”
I highly disagree, the new killers are not "bad" in general, they are bad in Chases, especially Skull Merchant is a killer like Hag, who plays around map control. Also as you said it in your Vid: Its about stratetgy. Picture survivors, they also use strategy, so why shouldnt Killer use good strats? at low elo its just messing around, at high elo its play to win. Ofc its "unfun" for the survivors if their Strategies meet a Killerstrat that works against them xD My tip is: Learn how to play against it, adapt and improve. Let your skill instead of BHVR fix the "problem". Also dont forget Surv recieved tons of Buffs in the last patches and dbd is highly surv sided. If Killers dont use strategies that work (even if that means camp, tunnel and 3 gen) they wont win. and as I said, its play to win. (For everyone who says "no its about fun!" do u think its fun as killer to lose every match? or do you think its fun to play at your best and win?)
I used to get way more hooks when Pop+Call of Brine was a thing. It bought me time to complete more chases. Now I literally get one hook and make sure I come back to it right as someone is going for a save and camp. Typically, I end up grabbing at least one person trying to save and the game is basically bricked. Then I have the pleasure of chasing the same two survivors for longer than it took me to solidify a win.
I play three matches a month at this point. There are too many new games coming out to be doing the same thing every match.
Scott you complain about killer strategies and lack of counter play for survivors but you never talk about counterplay for killers against survivors. It’s very biased imo if you want killers not to have to do these how about not advocating for every other strategy to be nerfed into oblivion
They were always bad. They’ve just been rampant, as perks have made them even more exploitable. This could be fixed with either a map rng overhaul, or adding 1 more gen. But BHVR seems to encourage this, or it would’ve been changed long ago.
I don't dislike 3 gens because they're the most "normal" aspect of strategy for killers. Since gens exists and Maps are enormeous 3 gen strats need to be applicable or else the killer is all over the place and that will lead to a big failure for them.
However the way certain killers are designed and the way certain Perks are designed facilitate creating a 3 gen and make breaking a 3 gen so hard for the majority of survivors. Recognizing when you're in a 3 gen is already too hard for most survivors cause most survivors won't know the possible layouts of each Maps.
Imo Map design is the key to this. Shorter maps and a regular map spread design would make wonders to help both sides play by the same rules. We have enough Realms and Dedicated Maps to do away with Map RNG. This way Map knowledge becomes a key component for both sides to use. Also since Map RNG is no longer a factor this also makes looping better, survivors know what they can rely on and killers know what to expect when they load into a match. It would help imensely with Map Balance.
A couple days ago i was in a match in Lery's and all 4 of us died because we were stuck in a 4 gen. There was only 1 gen on the outside ring of Lery's with 2 gens in rooms right next to each other and leading into the center of the map. The killer had a very easy check on all the 4 gens and we couldn't do shit about it.
Increase the starting gens in a map from 7 to 9, increase the amount of gens that survivors have to fix from 5 to 6. Yeah numbers and maps would have to be tweaked but defending the last 4 gens would be much harder for the killer than 3
This is just simple killer culture manifest. Most killer YouTubers are try hards. Who promote tunneling and gen patrolling to ensure “wins”.
Some killer mains even tell players to abandon chase if they can’t get a hit right away.
What else would that lead too?
Killers right now play in two ways, tunnel 1-2 ppl out the game or gen hover. Survivors can bring perks for tunneling, and we both know killers hate actually playing the game so they are settling on three genning.
My friend sent me a watch she said was 79 minutes long she ended up getting herself and a teammate out after she just went to tunneling its getting so bad
He's actually dangerous at 3 gens. The nature of his ability makes him lethal in such a scenario. Pick 3 gens the purple/yellow bag and iri whet stone.
The Trapper can still effectively "end" chases because survivors will step into all the traps you placed in the area at key points
Because BHVR has gutted every good regression/slowdown perk that doesn't require 3genning (excluding pain res). Ruin, pop, thanat, without those it feels like there isn't a good enough way to stop the game from going by in 5 minutes against a coordinated 4stack if you're not playing a meta killer
Yo just a reminder buffing and nerfing killers doesn’t do anything but make them stronger or weaker we call stuff like this reworks and on top of that why should we killers care considering we have to deal with swf’s with full meta loadouts and maps with good loops with a infinite amount of god pallets or safe pallets. There aloud to mess up killers can’t.
A different solution would be to categorize perks and put a limit on the strongest categories. Then killers can't run 4 gen slowdown perks and avoid playing the game for 8 minutes while waiting for survivors to visit their 3-gen.
Me being the one guy that likes Skull Merchant and Knight I don't really play them as 3 Gen defenders though. I've found some builds even with Skull Merchant that I enjoy that don't revolve around Gen defense.
Could it work something like this? The first 7 gens in the map take a long time to do, so for every gen done the next one is faster to do, in the 3 gen escenario the last gen takes 40 seconds or something like that to do (it still means 450 seconds in total) The true way to fix it is to change maps into making the gens more spread, but the loops not so strong, so killers have an incentive to chase and not to stay in the 3 gen
This is a very old problem and it seems you've forgotten about a dev stream a good few years back (about 3 or 4) where the devs told killer players to "pick a few gens and defend them" (paraphrase) in response to questions about how the devs were going to address the severe imbalance between survivor and killer. The easy fix was years ago to bring killers up before it was a massive task.
By the way, for anyone wondering why this is a problem, blame SWF. the reason we have smaller maps is to give killer's a chance against SWF. This is because big maps made it impossible for Killer's to even attempt to defend gens. So once again, the impact of slapping a feature in a game that made a co-op ffa into a 4v1 has proven itself to be a massive detriment to the game as a whole. It's almost like for years killer players warned of this and were ignored by the devs because the sales potential that SWF gave them. Enjoy the 3 gens, brought to you by the devs themselves.
You keep saying the Knight is terrible at everything but 3 gens. But DyllonKG has been having long win streaks with the Knight, and he doesn't do 3-gens. In fact he almost never kick gens manually, he typically send his guards to do it for him. And recently he posted a video asking BHVR to nerf the knight: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IOItu6JoQ6M
I was wondering what you thought of his opinion and performances with the knight.
Three reasons: 1) the devs keep releasing gen kick Perks without a true counter on the Survivor side, 2) no one ever runs Déjà Vu, and finally 3) Solo queue only ever does the first gen they find and doesn't think about stopping the three gen before it happens and even if they do somehow gather their collective braincell the Killer can just prevent it getting broken most of the time and turn the game into a slow painful not-fun grind.
well it doesn't help when survivors can pop 3 gens within 2 minutes before some killers can even get one hook. This is vary demoralizing. More so is a killer keeps running into constant SWF. Have this done enough or get bullied enough and lots of killers will start 3 genning just so they can finally win for once. There are vary few players that can deal with top tier SWF teams
I highly disagree, the new killers are not "bad" in general, they are bad in Chases, especially Skull Merchant is a killer like Hag, who plays around map control. Also as you said it in your Vid: Its about stratetgy. Picture survivors, they also use strategy, so why shouldnt Killer use good strats? at low elo its just messing around, at high elo its play to win. Ofc its "unfun" for the survivors if their Strategies meet a Killerstrat that works against them xD My tip is: Learn how to play against it, adapt and improve. Let your skill instead of BHVR fix the "problem". Also dont forget Surv recieved tons of Buffs in the last patches and dbd is highly surv sided. If Killers dont use strategies that work (even if that means camp, tunnel and 3 gen) they wont win. and as I said, its play to win. (For everyone who says "no its about fun!" do u think its fun as killer to lose every match? or do you think its fun to play at your best and win?)
Just run Deja Vu bro
I used to get way more hooks when Pop+Call of Brine was a thing. It bought me time to complete more chases. Now I literally get one hook and make sure I come back to it right as someone is going for a save and camp. Typically, I end up grabbing at least one person trying to save and the game is basically bricked. Then I have the pleasure of chasing the same two survivors for longer than it took me to solidify a win.
I play three matches a month at this point. There are too many new games coming out to be doing the same thing every match.
I was scrolling down quickly and saw the guy on the left and said "Yo, is that the Shredder from TMNT?"
Scott you complain about killer strategies and lack of counter play for survivors but you never talk about counterplay for killers against survivors. It’s very biased imo if you want killers not to have to do these how about not advocating for every other strategy to be nerfed into oblivion
They were always bad. They’ve just been rampant, as perks have made them even more exploitable. This could be fixed with either a map rng overhaul, or adding 1 more gen. But BHVR seems to encourage this, or it would’ve been changed long ago.
I will enjoy my hour long skull merchant game
Exactly why if I see a killer purposely forcing a 3 gen I just dc tired of having 40 minute matches
I don't dislike 3 gens because they're the most "normal" aspect of strategy for killers. Since gens exists and Maps are enormeous 3 gen strats need to be applicable or else the killer is all over the place and that will lead to a big failure for them.
However the way certain killers are designed and the way certain Perks are designed facilitate creating a 3 gen and make breaking a 3 gen so hard for the majority of survivors. Recognizing when you're in a 3 gen is already too hard for most survivors cause most survivors won't know the possible layouts of each Maps.
Imo Map design is the key to this. Shorter maps and a regular map spread design would make wonders to help both sides play by the same rules. We have enough Realms and Dedicated Maps to do away with Map RNG. This way Map knowledge becomes a key component for both sides to use. Also since Map RNG is no longer a factor this also makes looping better, survivors know what they can rely on and killers know what to expect when they load into a match. It would help imensely with Map Balance.
A couple days ago i was in a match in Lery's and all 4 of us died because we were stuck in a 4 gen. There was only 1 gen on the outside ring of Lery's with 2 gens in rooms right next to each other and leading into the center of the map. The killer had a very easy check on all the 4 gens and we couldn't do shit about it.
Increase the starting gens in a map from 7 to 9, increase the amount of gens that survivors have to fix from 5 to 6. Yeah numbers and maps would have to be tweaked but defending the last 4 gens would be much harder for the killer than 3
3 gen style so boring, I've had to do it before when survivors just pop gens to fast and it's just not fun for either side. Big sad
This is just simple killer culture manifest. Most killer YouTubers are try hards. Who promote tunneling and gen patrolling to ensure “wins”.
Some killer mains even tell players to abandon chase if they can’t get a hit right away.
What else would that lead too?
Killers right now play in two ways, tunnel 1-2 ppl out the game or gen hover. Survivors can bring perks for tunneling, and we both know killers hate actually playing the game so they are settling on three genning.
My friend sent me a watch she said was 79 minutes long she ended up getting herself and a teammate out after she just went to tunneling its getting so bad
Love how Trapper doesn't even get a mention lol.
He's actually dangerous at 3 gens. The nature of his ability makes him lethal in such a scenario. Pick 3 gens the purple/yellow bag and iri whet stone.
The Trapper can still effectively "end" chases because survivors will step into all the traps you placed in the area at key points
Scott really is the BBC of DBD
The ending was just so accurate and spot on lol
I disagree to a certain extent. The new killers power directly points players towards a 3 gen playstyle.
The Otz thumbs up at the end was great
Because BHVR has gutted every good regression/slowdown perk that doesn't require 3genning (excluding pain res). Ruin, pop, thanat, without those it feels like there isn't a good enough way to stop the game from going by in 5 minutes against a coordinated 4stack if you're not playing a meta killer
Yo just a reminder buffing and nerfing killers doesn’t do anything but make them stronger or weaker we call stuff like this reworks and on top of that why should we killers care considering we have to deal with swf’s with full meta loadouts and maps with good loops with a infinite amount of god pallets or safe pallets. There aloud to mess up killers can’t.
A different solution would be to categorize perks and put a limit on the strongest categories. Then killers can't run 4 gen slowdown perks and avoid playing the game for 8 minutes while waiting for survivors to visit their 3-gen.
Me being the one guy that likes Skull Merchant and Knight I don't really play them as 3 Gen defenders though. I've found some builds even with Skull Merchant that I enjoy that don't revolve around Gen defense.
Scott "Rattington" Jund strikes again
Here’s the solution. Bring back perma sabotage! That way survivors can permanently delete all of the hooks near the 3 gen! Sounds fair to me!
people 3 gen because mouse1 killers are garbage against good survivors
Bruh wake me up when ruins back, or pop for that matter just make killers rewarded for chases again.
Could it work something like this?
The first 7 gens in the map take a long time to do, so for every gen done the next one is faster to do, in the 3 gen escenario the last gen takes 40 seconds or something like that to do (it still means 450 seconds in total)
The true way to fix it is to change maps into making the gens more spread, but the loops not so strong, so killers have an incentive to chase and not to stay in the 3 gen
I think the ruin nerf was a huge factor in it
i kinda think we have to nerf 3 gens and let knight and skull merchant fall into dumpster oblivion until bhvr realizes how flawed their designs are
Here’s my 6:00pm fix opinion nobody asked for: add wheels below the gens so survivors can straight up fucking move the three gen farther apart.
This is a very old problem and it seems you've forgotten about a dev stream a good few years back (about 3 or 4) where the devs told killer players to "pick a few gens and defend them" (paraphrase) in response to questions about how the devs were going to address the severe imbalance between survivor and killer. The easy fix was years ago to bring killers up before it was a massive task.
By the way, for anyone wondering why this is a problem, blame SWF. the reason we have smaller maps is to give killer's a chance against SWF. This is because big maps made it impossible for Killer's to even attempt to defend gens. So once again, the impact of slapping a feature in a game that made a co-op ffa into a 4v1 has proven itself to be a massive detriment to the game as a whole. It's almost like for years killer players warned of this and were ignored by the devs because the sales potential that SWF gave them. Enjoy the 3 gens, brought to you by the devs themselves.
Mostly bc gens are done way too fast and survivors have so much in their kit to extend chases and maps are trash.
You keep saying the Knight is terrible at everything but 3 gens. But DyllonKG has been having long win streaks with the Knight, and he doesn't do 3-gens. In fact he almost never kick gens manually, he typically send his guards to do it for him. And recently he posted a video asking BHVR to nerf the knight: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IOItu6JoQ6M
I was wondering what you thought of his opinion and performances with the knight.
BHVR: "We hear you loud and clear. Changes are coming:
– Reduced the Pig's movement speed from 4.6m/s to 4.2m/h
Three reasons: 1) the devs keep releasing gen kick Perks without a true counter on the Survivor side, 2) no one ever runs Déjà Vu, and finally 3) Solo queue only ever does the first gen they find and doesn't think about stopping the three gen before it happens and even if they do somehow gather their collective braincell the Killer can just prevent it getting broken most of the time and turn the game into a slow painful not-fun grind.
Oh that's what is in the video, OK, thanks Scott.
well it doesn't help when survivors can pop 3 gens within 2 minutes before some killers can even get one hook. This is vary demoralizing. More so is a killer keeps running into constant SWF. Have this done enough or get bullied enough and lots of killers will start 3 genning just so they can finally win for once. There are vary few players that can deal with top tier SWF teams