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#dbd #killer #survivor
On this episode of our Dead by Daylight commentary videos, we’re covering how the tribalism and political landscape of the age old killer versus survivor problem has gotten worse over time!
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The community is batshit but It's entertaining. The way I see it is that its a game and we play to have fun. Not get heated and rage quit or talk trash in chat. It very much seems to be becoming quasi political. I choose no side and walk in the middle. I'm thankful for DBD and the community regardless.
"Can't we all just get along?"
Dbd community and the one sided rules are really weird to me, a baby dbd player
As far as i see it there's a difference between hard tunneling out someone with 4-5 gens left and seeing that you have 1-2 gens left and have to create pressure somehow. As a survivor main i get it, if im dead on hook and youre in a position where youre about to lose the game then you gotta do what you gotta do to win at that point. Same with camping, big difference if youre camping on your first hook than if yoyre just camping your last kill during the endgame.
I think part of the issue is that DBD is a competitive PvP game without competitive modes or balancing around the fact. You can look at a game like say rainbow six siege where both sides are relatively balanced when it comes to abilities and gameplay, and game modes are seperated for casual and competitive play. Dbd has no such balancing or ranked mode delegation, if you wanna play then you have to play under MMR rules. And the game is balanced around it being a 1v4, so no matter what side you look at it from it feels unbalanced with either side seemingly not considering what it feels like from the other's perspective. Killers feel the game is unbalanced from the fact that they can only really pressure survivors 1 chase at a time leaving the other 3 surviviors to do gens or whatever other objectives they need to do to win the game, meaning if survivors play optimally they can escape in 3 minutes or possibly less with time saves that come from toolboxes. From a survivor side, especially in solo queue, it feels like the killer can be so overpowered and unbalanced considering they have much more powerful perks and basekit abilities to compensate for the 1v4 disadvantage that sometimes it feels like them being able to use "unfair" or "unfun" strategies like camping and tunneling just becomes too much. Its a competitive game, youre always going to have someone from either side complaining that some mechanic is too over the top or needs to be nerfed in some way. I dont really see it as a political issue. Not everyone should be held to a specific standard of play if they dont want to be, which is why ranked and unranked modes exist in the first place for most modern PvP games. At least thats how i feel, maybe I'm wrong.
The cycle goes like this; BHVR makes balance changes -> casual players still lose -> they complain that the game is unfair rather than admit maybe they're just not very good at it -> BHVR makes balance changes again.
The reality is, the vast majority of players, in any PvP game, do not know the first thing about game balance. They just believe they should be winning more than they currently do. They will blame anything and everything else for losing. Everyone in solo queue thinks they're the expert being held back by braindead newbies, when the reality is, they're likely making the same mistakes and either not realizing it, or in denial. They want to "play casually" but get the same results as someone who's actually trying to win, which is just not realistic or healthy for the game.
I feel that most of the whining you hear is coming from a VERY vocal minority, who feel on some level that as long as they make little or no mistakes, they should never lose the game.
But that runs counter to the way DbD is conceptualized.
The killer is supposed to have the upper hand and the task of surviving is supposed to be a difficult challenge. You are meant to beat the deck stacked against you.
Of course, the higher up in skill level you go, the more this is actually flipped on its head. Not as bad as it was a few years ago, but if you're a Trapper or Ghost Face Main at the top bracket of MMR, you are going to play sweaty games every single time you queue up.
DbD is by its nature utterly incapable of being properly balanced. Killers dominate low MMR while they struggle in higher tiers. If you balance the game around its core concept while catering to the top brackets only, the game becomes utterly miserable for the average and below average players.
As killer I don’t give a shit about tunneling or slugging. I almost have 400 hours in the game and I still don’t know what half the perks do or what 90% of the add-ons do. If winning means taking out the weak link to make it a 3v1 with 2 gens left then it is what it is. I have a lot of fun in those games and if the survivors don’t have fun that’s not my problem.
I win most of my games as killer!
As survivor I get tunneled and yeah it sucks but again it is what it is and at the end of the day I’m self aware enough to know it’s a skill issue.
You see clips on YouTube of people looping killers for a long ahh time trying to tunnel them.
I’m a noob and I don’t even have Decisive Strike yet but I’m working on it. If you don’t like getting tunneled as survivor get better at looping or bring anti tunneling perks instead of raging over imaginary “policies” not being followed that you invented in your head
You can also try hiding and let the looper on your team take chase while you do gens and hide. If the killer wrecks your looper then you were probably not gonna win anyways lol
Good rant video as always very thought provoking
You tunnel my gens I tunnel your swf. I dont call it gen rushing, its gen tunneling and im just securing my kills and holding position.
Sad but honestly that’s actually a good way to put it. It really is like the bipartisan system.
VOTE FOR ME, and I will give the people what they truly want. A TOP HAT FOR ALL KILLER POWERS, and A SKIN FOR ALL SURVIVORS TO MAKE THEM LOOK LIKE FOOD. It will be sexy, lovely, AND DELICIOUS
Here's my opinion… on either side, you can be an @$$hole, but it's not a crime, and neither is a bit of online sh1t-talking.
That being said, fostering an environment of us vs them isn't going to bring in new players.
After 5000 hours of DBD, the biggest frustration is the denial of your agency & ability to counter mechanics. the game looks casual, however the design is undeniably competitive.
The fact that killers are often reduced to a single strategy of sterile robotic optimization reflects a simple failure in game design. There's no true expression of skill in tunneling or camping as it forces both killer and survivor to interact with old broken mechanics that strip away their ability to express in any meaningful manner. What remains is a rigid, binary win condition that diminishes the game for both sides & it's bs.
Take No One Escapes Death: it lets unskilled players win simply because they brought it into the match. you are not being out-played; you are being out-perked.
this is just one example of the many problematic perks on both sides of the lane. the amount of generator speed & second-chance perks like (old) Dead Hard, (old) Adrenaline, & (old) For The People + Buckle Up—that absolutely stripped the killer of actual earned wins in the past now lie in the nerfed to death pile along with healing. items have been nerfed heavily to the point where item rarity is pointless in med kits & is now being relegated to niche perks through buffs. it's like we're being forced into a purposefully designed meta that intends to beat you over the head to play a certain way. all the while they continually strip away any playstyle from killer & survivor.
I’m not mad at players, but at BHVR. Their choices & responses have always felt arrogant & dismissive, and they consistently band-aid big issues instead of fixing them.
It’s exhausting, I feel punished for loving this game. ffs.
Yea you were totally justified to tunnel in that situation, but people will get mad at you no matter what you do if you win.
Now saying you are a bad content creator because they lost a match to you is not justifiable at all, thats just uncool and they are being sore losers.
People have had these "policies" about DBD for years and they are always ridiculous. Even if you 12 hook every game it doesn't matter,
people will get mad at you just for winning.
So I just play however I want using whatever perks I want because you're never going to please everyone.
Yo moist critical has another channel? Wassup charlie
in my opinion, there's a 3rd political group in this mix. the "Fun & How To" side of things. i've seen & experienced some of this stuff where for the "fun" side of things. like on the survivor side of things, a killer get's a kill on'em. "that was so boring. play a killer that's fun". and then for another example. killers saying for survivors to do like, get chased or do anything else besides sitting on gens. but i do know survivors also have that "how to" side of them, where they'll tell killers how to play like there in control
Makes sense survivor would be blue since they cry so much
there is no politics, people just wanna have fun and the games not that deep and will never be that deep
I am someone who has been playing dead by daylight consistently since Pyramid Head hit live. I love this game, but this community is asinine. Completely unempathetic, ungreatful and entitled.
When i first got into dbd i remember thinking "this is the most political game community I've ever experienced" i swear survivor mains could have a health scare irl and claim god tunneled them.
Both Tunneling and Chat are in game tools that can be used or abused.
Tunneling is only toxic when you knowingly throw the game in order to make another player have a bad time. If someone has a short game because you're trying to win a 1v4, that's just how it goes. The best form of sportsmanship is respecting your opponent enough to bring your best game while preserving what you consider to be fun.
I disagree with how game play politics do not impact your real life. If people group together to harass you post game through out of game media, they're enforcing harm on your hobby or lifestyle. You putting the effort into making this video is a good showcase of the impact it had on you. Think of it as global politics vs local politics in matters of impact.
It wasn't about DBD, and I'm not going to get into the actual political jargon of the video, but I saw a Youtuber who broke down certain… lets say policies, to keep it relevant, of Western culture that have grown beyond just tribalism. The way he described it, the way people act nowadays extends beyond just political leanings and ideas — it's become a religion. If you don't think the way someone else does, you aren't just insulting them anymore, you're insulting their faith, you're insulting something that not only them, but so many other people, have made an integral part of their lives, their communities, and they attack anything they perceive as a threat to that with a righteous zealousness that goes beyond right and wrong. It's become a part of their faith, and if you disagree with it, it's because you are personally a terrible person, and just because you have a different opinion, nothing else you do is going to make them change their mind.
Now, this was about the state of politics, but it's something you can see in DBD as well. Survivor Mains and Killer Mains despise each other, and even though they like to pretend they're better than everyone else, the anti-us vs them crowd is just as venomous and tribalistic as the others. As much as we all wish it would change, I feel like things are only going to get worse as time goes on; if DBD has divided itself into political parties, then it's only a matter of time before policy becomes gospel, and you have to pick which side of the faith you believe in.
Honestly, if the right people took notice, DBD could make for an excellent social experiment for studying.
Idgaf about them made up survivor rules, get on the DAMN HOOK.
Hey bran, serial commentator here, I normally try to make nuanced or well thought-out messages to your discussion videos. Today I will be blunt. I don't think DBD is the most toxic community in gaming, I do think however it is the MOST twitter brainrotted community in gaming right now, where there is a serious victimhood issue with the community. It is super easy and clear to see because of 90% of the most viewed content for this game are streamers and youtubers making: "20 billion hour comp SWF death squad vs my p100 trapper with no perks" or "I loop TOXIC TUNNELLING SWEATLORD WRAITH FOR 500 GENS SOLO". Either don't engage with the cycle of outrage or have the patience of a saint and try to bring people up to your level. there is no silver bullet for this issue, the devs could add all the QoL improvements tomorrow and the atmosphere would still be the same.
Isn't 'Matching the energy of whoever I'm playing with' a Policy along with 'You unhooked in my face so I will down both of you' or 'I only tunnel when i'm really really gonna lose', I'm not saying that the are wrong, or these are Far Right/Left Policies, but it seems that all players, you included, have little 'policies' that they have made for themseleves to make the game go better for themselves.
The way I see it tunneling is the killer equivalent to genrushing: doing your objective in the fastest and most optimal possible way
It is a legitimate strategy. If you don’t like it, there are ways to deal with it. If you don’t like genrushing, you bring slowdown. If you don’t like tunneling, otr and ds are right there. Whining about either of these things either boils down to a skill issue or bringing a bad build
Instead of feeling sorry for themselves, survivors should finally learn to counter tunneling. That goes for both, the survivors, who do get tunneled, and their three team mates. It's been 8 bloody years. How to effectively (!) respond to tunneling should be of no mystery to god damn anybody.
1.) Run the killer to a part of the map, where he really shouldn't be.
2.) Don't unhook too early. And don't give up on hook.
3.) Anti tunneling perks (which can come in many forms, btw) are your best friend. Off the Record, DS, Baby Sitter, BT etc. go a long way. Hell, MFT is still perfectly viable in these situations.
4.) You can take hits for the tunnelee, but DON'T bring the entire squad for that. Gens should be moving at all times
5. ) Take advantage of the killer's tunnel vision and knock out the middle gens first. Make sure, that the remaining gens are further and further apart from each other with each finished gen.
If survivors would adhere to these simple steps, the killer would far more often pay dearly for his lack of gen pressure. And if there are 2 gens left and they are completely split across the map, even 3 survivors will still be in a strong position.
Tunneling (most certainly when it happens straight out of the gate) is no different than camping. It is a self-defeating ugha-bugha strategy, once survivors respond well to it.