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Over the holiday season BHVR have revealed a new user interface that is now currently being tested out in the PTB. It attempts to bring solo queue closer to Survive with Friends by adding new icons to team mate actions. But what does this mean for the overall game health? Everyone mostly seems happy, but should we be? Could this be another update which actually improves balance but makes the game increasingly competitive? Let’s discuss!
References:
Burns, S. and Bulman, C. 2000. Reflective Practice in Nursing: The Growth of the Professional Practitioner. 2nd Edition, Blackwell, Oxford.
Leijnen, S & Veen, F, 2016. ArkaNet: Investigating Emergent Gameplay and Emergence [pdf] Available at: http://www.digra.org/wp-content/uploads/digital-library/paper_4711.pdf [Accessed 01 January 2023].
Peanits, 2019. Community | Community Data Requests [online] Available at: https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/61114/community-community-data-requests [Accessed 03 January 2023].
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I do want to play to have fun but I only want to lose with grace. Stuff like close games for both sides and good chases. Not the mind-numbing gen kicking, tunneling and camping you see today. I want to be styled on. Not just… overwhelmed with perks that reset your progress. Now stuff like deadlock is what I like seeing. It just… put you on timeout for a bit with gens. The best direction this game could go in, in my opinion is to rework the perks that reset gen progress and instead just put it on hold so chases can happen.
Could not have said it better myself. I like to see what my "team" mates are doing. But I liked the chaos and loosing is a fun part of the game, or at least was.
So,,, your idea of helping this game is to leave it in its current state where solo q is seven shades of hell to play because if not killers will then need a buff more than what they already got in the meta shake up update, really? Unequivocally, killers received a decent buff in the meta shake up update which made solo q even worse. You actually think solo q is an okay state right now?
User Interface which shows the status of Survivors to facilitate Team information and cooperation?
I wonder what other Asym has had that feature for over a year now?
I joke, but this is why competition is crucial in any space, be it financial, retail, or Asym games.
Competition pushes companies to innovate.
VHS actually took a look at many of the problems DBD players had and addressed them.
1. Voice Comms for Survivors : Check
2. UI Giving Pictographic Indication of Survivor Action and Status : Check
3. Ping System for Survivor : Check
4. Balanced Gameplay : Check (though people still say Teens are OP or Monster are OP depending on the person)
5. More than 3 Cosmetic Options per Survivor Character Model : Check (Teens have 10 in VHS)
6. Perks Being Bonuses Not Necessities : Check (base kit Monster and base weapon Teens are perfectly viable and competitive)
I'm probably missing stuff, but VHS addressed many of the issues DBD players had, and yet it still hasn't found a large player base.
Why? Simple. It's a harder game.
It demands more practice to get good and Monster is especially hard because of the fact Teens can kill you.
But, if someone puts in the practice, the game is absolutely amazing.
Both sides are a blast, but playing Monster in the zone, feels truly powerful because the Teens can kill you, but in the zone, with strats on point and execution flowing, you can be an unstoppable force.
TLDR : DBD is bringing in UI HUD Status Icons which VHS has had for more than a year. Competition is good, with games pushing each other to get better. VHS is harder than DBD, but very rewarding when sufficient practice is put in.
tbh its four to one in the player base. smarter to please the bigger part of the community than the whiny killers. killers has best informationsperks and best stealth perks. survivors has selfcare and quick and quiet
12:35 "If you truly cared about playing a balanced Asymmetrical Horror game you could go play Video Horror Society, an excellently balanced Asym Horror game, but you don't because you weren't good enough to win at that game. You came back to DBD and complain about balance."
Wow. Hot Cross. My comment on your previous video was serendipitous. You are still essentially giving a bit of a backhanded compliment to VHS saying the game is wonderfully balanced and still not fun to play.
This is what DBD players wanted from VHS though. Many were never interested in VHS really. They just wanted some actual competition for DBD so Behavior would finally listen to the litany of complaints the Community had been having for years. DBD did get "better", by that, more balanced, but the question is did it get more fun?
TLDR : VHS was designed as a Balanced, Competitive game where the Teens and the Monsters both have many opportunities to take the upper hand and defeat one another. DBD was designed as a Party game that was supposed to be unbalanced and over the years more and more Perks and tweaks have been added to make the game more balanced and competitive.
Which approach is better?
Solution : Dual Lobbies in both games.
Comp and Casual Lobbies in both games.
Not doable with VHS at the moment because of the small player base, but definitely viable for DBD and likely to be very popular.
"Hey you know that game where you can get bullied if the survivors are good enough? Well in our game, the bullying is even worse!"
Still not gonna play that heap VHS
The UI is doing nothing for survivors tbh! Just give them base kindred and its fine
Most of the chaos I enjoy in dbd comes from insta down perks or blood warden plays. I just want solo queue to feel less punishing and I think this is the best way to convey simple information. Hopefully it means I don't have to die on first hook as much because two people are on gens while the other teammate is in chase. Also I like that if I see my solo team is efficient with gens I can get some challenges done without it hindering the team as much and possibly give the killer a bit of a break from the gen rush.
I'm a iri 1 killer, and It doesnt make sense camping and tunneling. It's just a waste of bloodpoints, the secret to become a good killer is let survivors unhook and heal always. This way you will chase more and learn more about your killer
Not sure, i mean, this is like SWF but slightly weaker
I welcome the UI information buff as a solo surv, because it dampens the most unpredictable and potentially harmful RNG of the game: teammates.
Map and layout RNG won't differ during the trial, but your teammates' actions can surely change for better or worse.
As of today, your decision making in solo que relies on a coin toss.
Did Jane recover on the ground so I can pick her up fast or she gave up and went afk?
Will we have gen pressure if I run to the other side of the map for an unhook?
Of course, I could bring 2-3 information perks to make beneficial decisions, but then the game becomes stale increasingly fast because I can switch 1-2 perks to spice up my playstyle.
With the UI info buff, I can have a wider freedom to pick my perks without sacrificing my value as a team player.
Personally, I don't see a problem with the game creeping towards a competitive state. People enjoy competitive games and some people don't, and it is what it is. I enjoy competitive games but I get my competitive fixes in other games. DBD, for me, is a very casual game. I don't like feeling like I have to try my absolute hardest to "win" in a game of DBD but the solo Q buffs being bad for the game is a very bad take imo.
Survivor players are the majority of the player-base. That's not really a surprise as its a 4:1 role. Because of this, BHVR does actually need to focus on making survivor players happy. Killers tend to complain the MOST about SWFs in any capacity. Because of this BHVR is obviously enacting a multi-step plan to help combat that. First, bring solo Q up to a SWFs level of gameplay (or closer to it), then buff the weaker killers that will struggle with SWF, then change killers & perks accordingly. This is ultimately good for the game. Making every killer "viable" will help killer players feel less frustrated and keep them playing longer because of how fewer players there are for the killer role.
Also, balance isn't just a "competitive" thing. Balancing in video games is more about an "equal opportunity" style than a "competitive" style game. The whole argument of "DBD shouldn't be a competitive game" is honestly stupid because people can always play a game how they enjoy. If you're not a very competitive person, said balance changes REALLY shouldn't affect you if you're truly playing the game casually and not caring about winning. There's a theory, based on trickle-down economics, called "Trickle-Down Balancing". Basically, if a given object or item in a game is balanced for the highest skill level currently available in the game, it should be balanced for every skill level below that. As well as balancing and making changes that only affect how said top skill level is using and abusing those assets. People like to play games to win and people like to play games to relax and be a vegetable.
I really miss Hawkins Laboratory map design, it felt so different from the others, with only Lery's Memorial Institute being close to that unique and specific map, I think we need more diverse maps like these that I mentioned, also I really want a New Mode with 2 Killers Vs 8 survivors with 10 generators, I think this should be at least interesting at the beginning, what do you think? 🤷🏻♂️
These new solo queue buffs have been wanted for quite some time. I am hoping they buff killers to compensate for all of this additional free information that solo's will be getting. As a solo queue player, I am both excited and fearful of these new changes. The new info will be nice for coordination purposes and balancing reasons. But I am legit worried that more competitive players may get extremely toxic if they don't see teammates doing objectives like gens/saves/chase. I imagine the harassment and sabotage will increase as I already see teammates give up on first hook if they don't see at least 2 teammates on gens when they get hooked. I am sure teammates will get berated for trying to do tomes/challenges like open X chests/cleanse X totems ect. I love dbd but the playerbase can be a bit much at times. I hope that BHVR implements some type of endorsement system to encourage more sportsmanship/positivity in the near future!
12:17 the tea is scaldiiiiiiiiing
If the killer you’re playing against is not brain dead, and your teammates are below average or even average, you almost never escape.
Short answer: No
For real. People really think VHS is a perfect example for balance, it looks like a 2016 dbd where the killer/monster is only there to complete the match
I just want the demogorgon back or some other creature type killers
Really interesting video as always Gary! Been thinking about it since yesterday and decided to add my two cents to the discussion.
Obviously you talked about the fact that player opinion is driving these changes to the game, and that perhaps players aren't sure what they want, but what would you say the impact of the devs is/could be on how competitive or casual the game is? Because I think there is definitely an impact there in terms of the devs having the ability to endorse and permit certain playstyles over others – you point to MMR in the video as a point where the game started to become more competitive, which I do have to be honest here and say I started playing after MMR was introduced so I'm not sure how many people were requesting more balanced game matchups before it's introduction, but that does seem to be an example of the devs making an change to the game that encouraged a certain playstyle.
More specifically there's the fact that time and again the devs have said that camping and tunnelling are legit ways to play the game. Which, obviously there's a lot of room for discussion about whether they're FUN ways to play, or whether they're necessary to win consistently as killer, but I think it's obvious that, ignoring those questions, it does mean that regardless of our personal feelings on them the devs have given them official endorsement as a valid way to play – how many players would still camp and tunnel if the devs instead made an official statement discouraging it/made it outright bannable. (not saying that I think they SHOULD do either, just that I think it would definitely shift opinion on those strategies).
I think dbd's big problem is that it was the first game in a new genre of game to become a big hit, people definitely didn't have any idea what was fun/weak/strong etc when it first dropped and its whole lifespan has been a cycle of players finding new ways to use the tools the game provides, and then the devs either endorsing those (such as with the shift from stealth focus to looping focus) or blocking them (the removal of deadhard for distance).
All that to say, if dbd is meant to have a more casual focus (and I'm curious what the devs would say if explicitly asked if they want dbd to be a comp game or a party game), how much of an impact would it be possible for the devs to have on introducing new mechanics that are intended to be fun: 2v8 gamemodes, a random perk/build button in lobbies, new perks having a focus on doing neat or fun things rather than on being strong or useful, bp or iri shard incentives for using non meta, turning off mmr or adding a casual mmrless queue mode, using their official outreach via twitter to say ask players about their experiences getting value from perks like dark devotion or deception/diversion, etc?
At the end of the day, just looking over these comments is enough to show that no two players have fun in the game the same way, and no change is going to please everyone. I think the devs definitely need to decide who their target audience is and make it explicit by coming out and saying if they intend for dbd to be more focused on being a competitive game or a casual party game; at least that way we'll all know where we stand. Whichever they pick, they're going to lose players, but I honestly think it'd be healthier for the game in the long run to pick an audience, tank the player loss now, and then work on pleasing that remaining audience rather than trying to make everyone happy and instead pleasing no one.
Be the change you want to see, don't run meta perks, goof around sometimes. It certainly reduces the stress that the game generates
I wish it was scary again tbh
Now killers games will be difficult, bcoz when i will play wraith, gf or sadako, there will be no fear on other survivors, they will jump on gen as i chase other survivor, claws will show them whom i m chasing