Read more Dead by Daylight ➜ https://deadbydaylight.mgn.gg
http://www.twitch.tv/ScottJund
https://discord.gg/TheBreaderhood
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Read more Dead by Daylight ➜ https://deadbydaylight.mgn.gg
http://www.twitch.tv/ScottJund
https://discord.gg/TheBreaderhood
source
I don't want to chase fearless survivors who know that DH will save their ass.
"Dbd isnt a horror game at high skill"
Meyers and ghostface: "lol"
Your point is cool and all but what happened to the rest of the survivors in the video? 🙁
Seriously though, I love your content Scott, even if I don’t quite understand a lot of the points you make because I only play DBD in passing. Thanks for the great videos!
The thing is, you can be a 10k hour huntress with no perks or addons, and you'd absolutely get crushed against "relatively high" mmr survivors with ~500hrs(per person). It's not that I think killers should play with an empty loadout, because why would you, but the point is that hours/experience/skill is not necessarily a compensation tool for the imbalanced state of the game. In fact, sometimes it's just worthless. Same with those poor souls who get facecamped by racist bubbas(lol) no matter how good of a looper they are, it's meaningless at that point.
but for example, I feel like a 10k hour clown player who has a solid M1 game, that can throw his bottles competently, strategize wisely, should be able to have some fair chances to 3k a solid swf or survivors of similar skill level. I personally love that killer is harder to play and master. That's literally the only thing that makes playing killer fun for me, that it is challenging. But it can get very unreasonable as the variables shift and some matches feel fairly competitive, while many others feel absurd.
Also it's not about it being a horror game, but a 4v1 that makes people wonder why playing killer doesn't feel like the power role. The idea is that 1 survivor should be 25% as strong as the killer, roughly speaking. I'm not saying there's an exact science and logical order to how 4v1 asymmetrical games should be, but it makes sense that the killer should at least be stronger than 2 or 3 survivors to make it fair to 4v1. Meanwhile a single survivor can just abuse poorly designed loops and loop an M1 killer till the sun comes up. The best case scenario, it's a 1v1 and the killer has to win all the 1v1s, because the survivors are just as powerful as them. But that would just make 4v1 a glorified bully simulator for experienced players…oh wait, that's already what it is XD
That's what people mean when they say killer doesn't feel like the power role. Horror is just the aesthetics, it's the premise that can hardly hold up.
The real power role is the Entity. And "The Entity" likes his survivors happy and t-bagging…ready to buy more cosmetics 😉
I feel like there's some nostalgia for the early hours of your DbD playtime. I remember one of my first games, Ghostface on Lerys. I was crouching around, peeking around corners all sneaky like and taking survivors by surprise. It was an insanely fun match where the survivors weren't good and I was largely messing around, smiling and giggling all the while. Now that isn't the case, and I would love nothing more than to be able to recapture that game play from my first hours of DbD. But it sadly isn't possible.
When people say that killer should be the power role they mean that (from what I have heard at least), all killers should be able to have a chance to do well at the top level. For example, if you bring a clown into a top mmr match, the survivors will never feel like they are going to lose (unless you bring pinky finger which made clown good a lot high mmr, but the devs are nerfing it for no reason so oh well 🤷♀️)
My ideal DBD would basically be DND – with the killer basically being DM. I'd just love to give survivors an interesting thrilling game where they maybe all just escape by the skin of their teeth.
But in a real game like this, people can't be trusted with that much power.
This is also why I enjoy tanking my killer MMR by always 2 hooking everyone and letting everyone escape all the time. Doing that in the MMR where survivors are actually scared and immersed is more entertaining to me. I guess I should just start up a DnD group.
The hag scares he every time though no matter what.
a good killer with good survivors theyll both have fun in the chase rather than being scared at lower levels of skill, its still interesting just not in the same way
As a killer main I’m ok that killer is harder, I’m not ok with how many survivors aren’t willing to accept that it is
Perhaps the problem many people have with the killer's power (or lack thereof) has to do with the uncertainty of the key mechanics that killers have in their arsenal. If we ignore strategy entirely, mind games etc., then we are left with things such as hitting survivors with M1 and M2, picking them up, hooking them and grabbing them. Because of certain perks, so many of these mechanics can be extremely risky. Going for a hit? Could be nullified by a dead hard. Going to pick up? Could be nullified by DS. Not picking up? Unbreakable. Hooking? Deliverance. The only mechanic you seem to have as a killer that is always 'safe' is trying to go for a grab off a gen. Depending on your strategy and the awareness of the survivor you either get it or you don't, but there is no such thing as a survivor perk that makes the generator explode when being grabbed by the killer, resulting in a stun and drop (and I pray to the gods I didn't just jinx that, lol).
Survivors should have counterplay to the killer, which they do in the form of pallets, loops, mind games, distractions and flashlights, which all require some level of skill. But there are some scenarios where even a killer that is playing well and fair can be forced into inaction. Eating a DS at the wrong time can make the difference between one kill or three kills. So you always have to ask yourself whether you should risk engaging with the mechanic, and you kinda have to assume that survivors run these perks. That's sixteen perks to be mindful of.
Simply put, I think the fact that so many of killer-initiated interactions with survivors are so unreliable and risky is what makes the killer role so stressful at times.
I never clench my butt cheeks anymore while playing this game and I think that’s a problem
More than two decades ago at this point, there was an article about popular TCG Magic: The Gathering titled "Who is the Beatdown?" concerning matchups and identifying which side of the table was on a clock to win the game and which side had inevitability. The average (and even a large portion of the above average) player can't eloquently explain game theory, but most people can intuit those roles. In this case the killer is the "beatdown", and it's something everyone can intuit due to the nature of the game (insane psychopaths empowered by an interdimensional entity chasing misfits and outcasts around creepy locales), but most people aren't game theory aficionados or game designers and can only make surface-level observations about the premise.
Have you played "Friday 13th"? It is VERY killer sided but you can also counter him easily i love that game its so well made
BotJund out here making another video to defend broken survivors and the trash balance of this game.
Your opinions are so full of confirmation bias it's laughable~ "Oh me and another 7k hours streamer win our matches all the time no problem at top mmr, the game isn't unbalanced as you guys think!"
Meanwhile ignoring the thousands of complaints about utter unbalance and the overpoweredness of survivors, gens getting done in less than 4-5 minutes being fine and all the other nonsense. Not everyone is or ever will be a pro level 10k hour dbd player, so why does it require people to be that when people if relative skill to them they can't even beat because of survivors broken advantages?
I think the problem for killer is the way the ranking system works, I thought each killer was supposed to have their own MMR, which you would expect given how different some killers play mechanically, but they don't do much to actually offset it, which makes learning a new killer a punishing experience. Once you master survivor, it doesn't matter which survivor you play. However, mastering Hag, for example, then trying out Blight requires you to master a completely different power, and you shouldn't be held to that same standard with the new killer
“It’s not a Harrr game anymore.” -Scott Jund
Me, my anxiety and 900 hours say otherwise on being scared of the killer. Anyone else?
"Killer is just harder, but the game is not in favor of survivors"
how much has BHVR payed u this time, Scott?
I just think that M1 killers should have better 1v1. So, I think the ideal DBD is where you don’t need a great anti loop power to get relatively fast chases.
I just think Killers should have a secondary Power. It doesn't have to be as strong as their main power, but it should be something that they can use to augment their primary power. I don't think Demo's portals are a great example because they are very rarely used. And clown's two bottles are fine, but clown is still extremely weak. And of course, nurse is already powerful so what secondary ability could help her without her being broken? Honestly, this is probably why they don't make radical changes to killers, but I would love if the game had more atmosphere and horror to it. The only way to so that with Killer interactions would be to make Killer scarier to face. Right now, everything is so formulaic, and it gets incredibly boring to go through a checklist as killer or survivor for optimal play. Hit survivor, chase, mind-game, wait out dead hard, break pallet, chase again, hit and down, hook, repeat.
No see, sadly a game that had a fun true power role.. Was Evolve.
You were the huge monster that grew to kill the survivors, though they had pretty good weapons and powers.
And before it was taken away it became how this game has – lost its luster that was there at the start of you playing.
I really like playing as killer, but i sorta give up after 3 or 4 matches cuz i'm always paired with higher rank players that just loop the hell out of me lol
The abundance of cheaters in this game is what is killing it. Not played in months now because of it. There are obvious ones, but there are many who are more subtle, and BHVR do nothing about it.
My personal take on this.
Killer is harder to learn but survivor is harder to really master.
People don't need to be afraid of a killer to be afraid of The Killer. The killer should be someone you dont want to be around, not a rude babysitter trying to halt you from playing with the generators but killers are slowly bleeding away lethality as survivors gain more and more safety lines and second chances. I've got less than 1/10 of my dbd hours on survivor but killers only scare me when they jump scare me because what're you gonna do, hit me? I'm just gonna dh and coh away and if you catch me, the swf I run with always has bt. If you "tunnel" me I'll have ds. The only reason my bloodweb exists is to give me toolboxes, why would i need another perk?
People saying that killer should be the power role and feel threatening means that survivors should face more consequences from their actions. What we have now? You got injured and ran away or bodyblocked the hit for a teammate? Run to a boon, almost instantly heal, and go again. You fked up in a chase? Dead hard. Made a mistake and 3 people are on the floor? Nvm, i'll just unbreakable. Unhook in a killer's face? Fine, i have borrowed time. And so on. That means the killer have to play around a massive dump of survivor shit, even when they don't have it, what generally feels as lack of control of game pacing.
People really misinterpreted Otz video.
Killer is not easy Otz is just good.
He’s heavily invested.
He’s heavily dedicated.
He’s actually intelligent.
Can’t say the same for everyone else
The "Killers should be stronger than survivors" aka the power role argument was imo NEVER (yes the big absolute N word to be thrown here in terms of a debate/argument) about power role in the sense of "Local Horror Icon chases people down so you better be scared" kinda like in a horror RP type of setting when people bring it up. Sure this definitely can add to it, but it's minuscule in comparison to what it's really about, which is:
Those situations/moments/levels of gameplay where, you have some of the better survivors in the game (or even multiple ones on the same team working well together/swfing) who are in such a strong position and aware of said strong position, that they are able to ACTIVELY engage in chases with the killer or seek the killer out and even flash click (not in a toxic way) to be chased by them DELIBERATELY, because they know that in doing so they can win the game for themselves/their team. This is what really makes the whole "We want Killers to be the Power role argument".
You might be asking why? Because in those moments (which are much more common or even become the norm at the highest levels of play), if the Killer does commit, it will lead to a position where those survivors are able to waste enough time for their team, such that they can essentially carry the entire game without the Killer being able to do much, if anything, to prevent it from happening and no amount of active learning/time spent playing the game will counter it.
One could make the counter-argument here that (with experience), the Killers can actively decide to not chase them, due to their stronger positioning + gameplay abilities, and to focus someone else instead, so they remain efficient with their objective (while the guys chasing/clicking after him are wasting time for their team), but we all know how this crumbles in practice.
When you start to factor in things like gen efficiency, map design (strong loops/heavy pallet maps), power design (ex: high mobility killers vs M1 no mobility killers, or killers with powers like Nurse's/Artist's which can ignore survivor defenses like pallets/windows/looping entirely or better than others who can partially/less efficiently do it like Huntress/Trickster etc.), survivors countering powers, Killer perks and damage via healing/their own perks (which is obviously a healthy gameplay element for the game to have), flash saves (can be unhealthy for the game if it's done excessively/uncounterable like the unavoidable bully locker techs or dead zones where flash snipes are a threat on some maps due to design), body-blocking (in a collision sense = forces a hit from the killer if they want to keep pursuing the original chase like ex. standing in a doorway at Shack/corridors etc.), protection hits, sabotaging, taking hits (or in combination) to prevent downs and hooks.
Sprinkle in some good old swfing with communication/coordination here and there, with some added toxicity like tea-bagging/BM-ing/flashlight clicking to also ruin the immersion/horror RP setting (imagine if survivors had access to more emotes like /laugh), and voila, you can now see how the Killer is not the power role in many cases/situations in both a real way and an RP horror setting way AT LEAST at a top level of play, if not on a slightly above average level with the community simply maturing along with the game across the years.
The killer becomes a scary icon when it's a 3 blink nurse that knows how to blink on top of you 90% of the time