Read more Dead by Daylight ➜ https://deadbydaylight.mgn.gg
http://www.twitch.tv/ScottJund
https://discord.gg/TheBreaderhood
source
Read more Dead by Daylight ➜ https://deadbydaylight.mgn.gg
http://www.twitch.tv/ScottJund
https://discord.gg/TheBreaderhood
source
Otz is gonna drop a 14 hour video explaining what the best macro play is in every situation on every map
Prioritization hierarchy frameworks aren't that hard to design, just be prepared to make both a pyramid and flowchart if you want to include visual elements.
i frequently think of what my karate teacher said: whatever your opponent wants deny them 🤷 sound duh but its every little thing
My best suggestion is to do a series of instructional videos where you try to break down why you’re making certain decisions and theme the video about one set of circumstances and how game knowledge impacts which choice you make. It’s basically the “cover everything” idea, but chopped down into hopefully manageable pieces
As a killer I chase until I down a survivor. Because at this point the matches are so stressful I just focus on improving my chases. Don't really care if I lose the match because of it. I find it more enjoyable then trying to juggle 4 survivors and still lose the game.
yeah, every time i am doing well, and think i could get away being complacent and spend some time chasing a good survivor thru 3 connected jungle gyms, when I should be doing is give up the chase and pressure the survivor that just unhook to stop them from healing up. My mind says keep up the pressure, but my heart says maybe…just maybe, i could down this survivor with another 15 seconds, despite i spend probably almost a minute chasing
As a killer, do what you must to pressure the survivor (of course facecamping and straight up tunneling its not how you pressure, its pretty much losing the game, unless you are dealing with really altruistic 4 man swf).
I've played killer for about 50 of my 500ish hours and this is definitely the thing that overwhelms me the most. The time dilation is real when I'm in a chase lol, I get so overwhelmed as killer at times that I wind up locked in a state of indecision.
I feel it's a very unique aspect of DBD. There's no other game to my knowledge that has this exact type of real time macro management in this first person 4v1 scenario, which I think is why people struggle so hard with it.
I think what might help newbies like me when it comes to this is showing examples of your macro management and explaining why you dropped chase in specific scenarios. Like having a compilation video of it, with different maps, so that we can see varied examples.
General macro guides are impossible to make, you need specific variables to know what to do in a specific situation. I would love to see you review interesting macro games you play, though.
As a great YouTuber named Fungoose stated a lot- if you don’t get a hit or a pallet within 15 seconds of initiating chase don’t bother with the chase. It is very true unless you are pressuring multiple survivors.
The only macro gameplay i do is ignoring survivors on a different floor then i am. Fuck finding stairs I'll just keep patrolling gens
It's too nuanced…. Christ it's not that complicated
The best way to teach or learn macro play is just watching and experiencing good players like Otz you Zubat etc. Especially when they narrate their thoughts like, "I'm not going to chase here because this setup is strong, or I know where someone is and I need to stop them." Stuff like that really helped me and I often think the same stuff when I play, like this person clearly wants my attention.
Problem is that your macro changes based on map, your killer, your perks, survivor's perks, gen position etc. It just changes all the time.
Only thing possible would be create generic situations and show options of what to do like:
I downed a guy -> pick him up vs slug.
Survivor gets into strong loop -> leave / commit
but you can't just say always leave, you just can't do it all the time and sometimes you have situation where you can get away with it so do it.
So far best "guide line" of when to leave chase was, if you know that you are not going to get any value in next 20 seconds -> pallet / hit / down, just leave.
I think discecting a match to properly show macro .
So in a nutshell guys chase people but don't chase them for long as you'll lose. What a stupid concept for a game. Completely and utterly flawed.
This is relevant to any game really.
What separates good players from great players is having that game sense (or macro play) to make the right decisions at the right time. The only way to teach it is through example; Probzz is a survivor main but he often monologues his decision making in his videos which makes them very insightful to why he makes the decisions he does.
Generally speaking it is also specific to your own play style too so its difficult to "mimic" without constantly watching the content to keep it fresh in your mind.
I feel like doing killer adept really help with the macro since u know u have to hit every emblem to get the achievement so you literally have to play like u have A.d.d and jump back and forth and juggle everything especially knowing u have crappy perks 😂
I guess you can not exlain everything about macro, just as you can't put the muscle memory into someone's brain while explaining nurse's power. But you can do smth like a top 10 of most common situations (for example dropping chase when a good healthy survivor is in a strong area or slugging when you know an injured survivor is nearby)
Yeah its just game knowledge and experience. And also "studying" all these general killer techniques like trying to get a 3 gen, trying to create dead zones, knowing what loops to chase at and what not. Thats the only way to really learn it. I play since 2017 and i would say that im stoll not a very good Overall killer, more like average. Im really good at nurse and blight but the pther killers i really don't even play or try to master bc they are not as much fun to me. Also im a survivor main who plays survivor like 90% of the time and as survivor i would say im really really good! So yeah you gotta put in the time or else you can't expect to do great 🙂
Yep, that's me. Its really hard for me to know when to let go or what to do in certain situations. Partly because I love chases too much, partly because I don't have the experience yet.
Fungoose's videos, pretty much all of them is play by plays explaining every decision and what he is thinking or should be doing and even says what the survivor should be doing or is doing (as confusing as it sounds) I think if you watch enough of his videos a survivor and killer alike can understand the importance of Macro Gaming brotherrrrr
Just pressure gens gg ez
Macro is boring, chases are the fun part of dbd. Sometimes I try to win and focus on the macro part of dbd, but get bored of it after 1 or 2 matches
Love to see YouTube’s diversity,seeing a young Jewish homosexual in my recommended is a A+ in my book
I watched my friend play dbd once.
It felt like he just wanted to have fun being the killer and chase people…
He got pissed off with this game very quickly…
Actually, another friend of mine abandoned it as well after some number of matches.
The point is that dbd is so damn bad and too damn frustrating if taken as a competitive game.
But if it's not a competitive game then why do we want to balance it, and on top of that, balance it around kills/escapes?
I'm about halfway through the vod. I think you should make a series on yt of games from your twitch where you do some voiceover explaining macro decisions at key points. Possibly the best way to make a "guide"!
Everybody knows how to be a 'good killer'. The thing is (mostly) nobody enjoys tunneling, camping and slugging. The vast majority of killers just want a relaxing fun match. However much hate he gets, most people simply want to play like Tru3.
There is Sort of a way to teach it. watching gameplay and guiding people. such as say if they were chasing someone near a survivor on a generator, you could guide them to go for the person on the generator instead. or/if someone is going for a save in the vicinity of you and get a free hit that way. ik you said about certain situations, but that is only the real way to teach . i taught a friend of mine to avoid flashlight stuns when he is picking up people by looking around the area and only picking up by facing walls. he didn't have this macro gameplay before. if you were going to make a video you could very generic examples such as when there is less gens play more gen patrol/tunnel etc when there is more than 4 gens try kill as quickly as possible whilst keeping pressure etc. idk honestly this is just my opinion
It doesnt need a guide game sense is something you aquire over time its what makes the difference between william who seen a JRM video and tries to flashlight save and throw the whole game and JRM who has 1000s of hours and knows when to or not to go for that flashlight save same with killer but seen an Otz video i suppose XD
I want to briefly comment on how Scott puts gameplay in the talking videos as well. IDK i just think its nice and really smart from a content creator perspective; keeps something on screen to keep people engaged. My ADHD brain really appreciates being able to watch the gameplay while focusing in on whats being said. Thanks Scott (intentional or not)
I'm still fairly new at this, so I'm still developing my macro play, but as a killer I try to think, what are my priorities? What are the survivors priorities?
The only thing survivors have to do if they want to all escape is gens. That means I have to keep pressure on generators.
There are always 7 generators at the start of the match, it's impossible to keep pressure on all of them at all times, so you have to prioritize. Try identifying the ideal endgame 3gen from the start, maintain those as top priority for pressure. So when in chases, always try to push them back towards this area. If you down someone out of the radius, try to carry them as close as possible to the ideal area both to reduce travel time you your territory and for easier defense.
Priorities can shift mid-match. If I see survivors are extremely altruistic, that can be exploited. Their priority of gens has been determined to be lower and saving each other higher, then my priority shifts accordingly. i.e. I don't have to maintain as much pressure on gens if they aren't working on them. Maybe I know one person has been focused on doing totems the whole game. Do I have a totem that needs defended? Or is it actually better for me if they keep doing that because that's less gen pressure from their side?
Priorities also change based on perks. If I have Ruin up, I can get passive pressure by just chasing a survivor off a gen, but I don't have to hard commit to a chase if it becomes even mildly inconvenient. If I'm running Pain Resonance though, I need to prioritize downing a survivor so I can put them on a scourge hook. If I'm running Tinkerer, a gen nearing completion can adjust my priority; I consider whether I am close enough to pressure it before it pops, or if it's too far or safe for them that I need to let it go and focus somewhere else.
If I down someone who was recently unhooked, I have to consider whether or not to pick them up if I think they have Decisive Strike. Maybe I know it isn't a factor because they were just healing, or on a gen. If I don't know, do I slug them and wait it out? Can I afford to maintain local pressure while waiting? Do I just risk the stun and pick them up?
My power also informs my priorities. My favorite killer is Nemesis, and the zombies/vaccines give me a lot of info on where survivors are and what they're doing. Or if I'm Plague, maybe I notice that someone on my HUD just got infected; I have to think, do I know where they are? What have I recently puked on? Or are they on a gen with someone else who's infected? Where's my nearest corrupted fountain, when can I afford to go there? Or should I bother if everyone just cleansed?
It's a lot of mental juggling of information, and analyzing what's most important at the time. It can be a lot, and it can be exhausting against really good survivors. But it's also what I think is most fun about playing killer 🙂
Macro gameplay is called game sense in other games.
Another example of “good micro and bad macro” is in Overwatch:
Attacking Players always complain about killing 3+/6 enemies and still losing the fight BUT they would get those kills after their own team is already dead and they can’t capture the point because the enemies respawn closer to the point.
A player with better game sense would wait for their team before engaging.
I wanna see the gameplay
The only thing I can really think of is using gameplay to teach lessons about situations. You could start by explaining priorities in key parts of the match.
For example, how to give up gens to make them easier to defend
Or
How to kite survivors
just let the robot explain it xD
I feel like the only way you can talk about the macro play of Dead By Daylight is to talk in abstracts about what your goal is when you're in the match. Talk about survivor efficiency, the game progressing in stages where the advantage for either side shifts and changes, how your goal is to kill survivors but the way you do that is preying on the places on the map you know they're going to be (usually generators, but not always)…
I'm not actually that good at the game, I'm only an average player, so I don't know exactly what each talking point would look like- but you're right, you can't do a purely example-based guide like learning how a killer's power functions.
Examples could be used to highlight any given talking point, though.
Maybe you could do macro guides for individual killers?
I think the only way to teach people (if you want to) is presenting them with information that you have as the killer in a game and put someone in a learning situation. Like have a couple of examples at key decision making moments of what and when to do something.
Make a flow chart in Visio for a specific map and discuss the possible scenarios with you if then statements as you mentioned 🙂
In science, if you are trying to study this youd be doing case studies. So maybe you should do a series on macro game case studies. Find a nice macro concept, show it in action, walk through it.
Picking gens to protect and pallets to get dropped early is involved macro I believe. Forcing a three gen is hard though, and a 4 v 1 vs a 3 gen isn't a guaranteed win.
Maybe a way for a tutorial you could explain it like this (I may edit this comment to add things) And I would really appreciate feedback here.
-Always keep your Killer's power and most importantly, their mobility in mind
-Always pay attention to what the survivor you're chasing has at their disposal (strong tiles strung together, unsafe stuff; while keeping the survivor's skill, perks and playstyle in mind..) and when aproaching a new area, ask yourself this: How fast can I get this down? And where is everyone else right now (most likely)? Is this time investment (or palettes you will get rid of) worth it?
Your power, perks and mobility should help with that decision.
Overcommiting in the early game I would even encourage in some way to learn more about your opponents.
The whole "Is this worth it?" question is the hardest one to get down… just like in life to my therapist's dismay
The best I can come up with is a montage of key moments that frequently come up in matches.
hm
When I first started playing DBD I recognized that "There is with certainty an invisible pressure gauge for each match which dictates which side is in the driver seat."
I like to refer to this pressure gauge as the following; At the start of the trial survivors see the pressure gauge at 0% and the killers see it at 100%. At the start of the game it is entirely on the killers shoulders to preform in order to get a foothold. This paired with forced MMR is likely what causes killer to feel so stressful for some players who are uncomfortable with the role or even familiar killers who are having a bad game.
Without taking into account advantages given to you by perks like corrupt, discordance, and lethal pursuer. The killer starts with no information and no pressure – the survivors spawn near generators and can start working on them immediately. There are several good ways to get pressure early – but getting a hook is the key to establishing a foothold. If you know the layouts of the maps, the first thing you should do is check gens in dead zones; so you can force a quick down or pallet drop, the sooner pallets come down around dead zones the harder it is for survivors to do that generator if you choose to defend it and hook near it. Repeating this process will leave them trapped in an area where they cannot chain tiles because there aren't enough resources on that side of the map.
If you have your first down, it is time to think about where you can hook a survivor and if you plan to defend your hooks. Defending hooks is just as powerful a resource as defending you generators; and if you can hook in a place where you can do both all the better. Basement aside you want to avoid hooks in tiles that are strong or chainable if you are planning to defend them. If you aren't going to defend your hook then check your gens. If you are gonna defend your hook don't sit too close to it, get some distance and look to intercept the survivor that comes before he gets to the hook. If you can down him before the other survivor is unhooked – you will have a hook and a slug which means that 2 survivors are currently incapacitated – this typically will lead to the other 2 survivors getting off their generators and giving you 100% pressure. You don't want to hook the slug unless there is another hook super close – the time it took you to injure and down the other survivor should have sent a signal that they were in chase and not able to get the save – another survivor should be in the area waiting for the pick up to unhook. To maximize pressure leave the slug and defend the hook.
Keeping survivors off generators is the killers best way to win; however the best way to keep survivors off generators isn't actually defending the generators; it is forcing the survivor team to come to you – For example defending one side of Sanctum of Wrath or Suffocation pit and forcing survivors to come to the side you are defending rather than patrolling the whole map – however the problem with this strategy is that survivors significantly out number you and will pressure multiple generators at a time so its paramount to your success that you are able to properly assess where they are if you intend to camp a 3 gen strat – you can do this by not remaining near one gen for too long but patrol in a means that will let you see the gens you are defending in a time efficient manner.
Some Extra Tips:
-Stealth: Don't look for the stealth survivor if they aren't in a dead zone – they will burn your time before the chase even start and then they'll have resources around them to work with.
-Camping: Camping and Hook defense are valid strats, however it is important that you don't facecamp and hit the survivor on hook but rather keep a short distance from the hook and patrol to look for possible people coming in, knowing how many survivors are in the area or if you can get a health state out of one before they can get into position are more likely to get you wins.
-Generators: Its good to be in the mindset that the first 3 generators will go no matter what – there are usually enough safe generators for survivors to work on that require you to go out of your way to defend like the ones on top of Mother's Dwelling and Dead Dawg Saloon main buildings. Learn to let some generators go and not get to worried about it, if you can take out some of the survivors resources outside of the main building in the first 3 generators then in the last 2 generators when they won't be able to chain tiles.
-Tunneling: If you can get a survivor out of the game then you can get survivors into a position where 1 person is on hook, 1 person is in chase, and 1 person is going for the save. This means that no one is on generators and you will almost always win from here. A lot of people talk about tunneling out the weak link.
This will be a very interesting flowchart to see once it's created, if possible.
It’s genuinely just something you learn with time. I feel like most people learn how to do well in chase first, then you naturally move on to understanding & doing well with the macro. I’m not sure how you could properly explain/teach it either… you just start to pick up on it the more you play.