I used to be quite at odds with a lot of Scott's commentary, usually leaning more towards Otz Darva's commentary on things more frequently. However the past couple of months things have flipped on their heads and I am in 100% agreement with Scott and am annoyed af with Otz's takes on things. Thank you Scott for calling things as you see it and speaking frankly. I appreciate your perspective and not just because I agree with you now. LOL 😆 I try not to play super sweaty as a killer because I know that as a survivor its not fun at all to go up against. We as a community can curve the camping and tunneling issue if we adjust our playstyles just a little. A little solidarity can go a long way.
I blame toxic swfs and Youtube killers! They taught and helped created these monsters now it’s too late the game is in an awful state because of it…Q times are awful…
I do recall your tweets a while back about tunnelling, and if I may vaguely quote, " idk why people don't like getting tunnelled, it's the most fun part of the game getting chased. Maybe that's why people were calling you disconnected or pompus. 90% of the player base (those casuals who keep the game alive)want to do the rift, progress challenges, try to have a single ounce of " fun ", Not get tunneled out of the game in 2 minutes. The whole " well, just get good and don't get tunnelled " (not saying you personally said that) answer also is not healthy for the game at all. I dont think you're super consistent with your views on things, though ig ppl change their minds over time…
but it IS the community's fault and nobody else's. The killer dictates how the game goes, not the survivor. The most killer sided patch in one of DBD's history, and killers are tunneling more than they have ever done in DBD's existence. This is not a competitive game, but people play so like they are winning money on the 13th of every month. Do killers honestly think tunneling is fun? Probably not, but they want a 4k, some god awful reason. Despite if Behavior set the game up now, so that tunneling is the best way to win, doesn't mean killers have to play that way, they choose to play that way. DBD is as bad as it is, because of the outcome of how they play. It's in no way dictated by survivors at all, and survivors have no way to prevent tunneling in any single way.
Saying you can win consistently while doing zero form of tunneling and camping is like saying it's easy to get rich playing roulette.
Last time I checked, most people ain't millionaires. I don't get this notion where people think we need to make the game fun for the people we play against. Such a weird mindset to have and I'll never understand it.
If I'm playing a game where the end result is losing or winning, why would I ever care whether the opponent is having an enjoyable experience? That is up to them, not me.
You saying, "You try to get better", people feel attacked, and are TAKING offense. When it's literally what's happening. You can only get better at something, by spending more time doing it. If you're not, you won't get better. It's not a big deal.
From my perspective as 70/30 survivor/killer split, the way I perceive the game is that killers often don't feel like they actually want to play the game in a normal or fun way, they want a 4k handed to them on a platter, now I know that this ISNT the case for all killers, but definitely some of them. For survivors the main gripe I hear is inability to just play the game, being camped/tunneled denies gameplay in the worst way imo. The survivor complaint that comes off as unrealistic is whining about hatch constantly, slow down perks, and obnoxious powers at times
The simplest solution to tunnelling is make it so when a survivor is unhooked if they are the next to be hit they gain a health state instead of losing one. It would take zero effort to implement and make tunnelling useless.
Also: this is a complete joke but true nonetheless.
r/deadbydaylight is where you go if you want to be among the absolute bottom of the barrel DBD players, probably only second to /assg/. Of course they'd be upset.
i quit playing the game cause of the toxicity. i know its "not as bad" as other games, but i dont play those sorts of horribly toxic community driven games for a reason. just cause it gets worse doesnt mean i wanna stay here, yknow?
A lot of people think they're better than they actually are. To me camping in tunneling is a punishment to survivor mistakes. Heal in my line of sight? Congrats, you just lit up a neon 'Please tunnel me' sign. Body block too early? Ok you get to be slugged.
MMR thinks people are going to play to get better over time. Thats its main flaw… MMR can't see the difference between a huntress who landed 20+ hatchets in one game and a Buba that camped out 2 people. So killers who've won 2-300 chases total since they installed are being pitted against survivors who've escaped 1,000+ chases total since they installed because MMR can't tell the difference…
The idea that some great majority of the community could band together and not tunnel/camp/try hard so much when there is no in-game incentive to do so seems like more of a pipe dream to me than a half decent response from BHVR, and that’s saying something. I also don’t think you’re ever going to “win” an argument when you’re making assumptions about what people should or could be doing with their time.
I must agree with the game being played at its absolute sweatiest is unfun. And I can say that is the case for every game, I feel we've been pushed a lot of high skill gameplay because it's entertaining to watch and could also inspire us to challenge ourselves to reach that point. I've played very high elo for League and Overwatch and can say I rarely had fun. I found myself playing bot games afterwards to decompress and just casually enjoy the game itself which showed me that going into every single game with the intention of dominating and climbing a ranked ladder can really take the fun and enjoyment out of a game. I do like to be competitive and play some sweaty games but it's easy to get burnt out on a game with that mindset.
Now that I have a 9-5 job in the bay area (as well as a 3 hour daily commute), I essentially have very little time to play games except for maybe an hour or so when I'm free that night. I regularly enjoy your content amongst Otz, Tofu, and a couple other but I haven't played dbd in about 3 months I'd say but I must say it's been more enjoyable watching you content creators bring fun videos and builds rather than playing myself.
This comment post kinda became a vent so my bad but anyways, great video Scott! Hope to catch your next stream 🙂
I think the idea that the community can band together and address the problem is a little bit of an old school idea that just can never work in todays gaming environment. When I was young and I'd play games online, for example I used to play Age of Empires 3, the community of people who are online is actually quite small compared to today. I would get on every day and see so many familiar names, people would become familiar with you, and if you didn't play in a way that the majority of the community agreed with, you would basically get blacklisted. Lobbies in AoE3 used to be listed with a number of rules tacked on the name like 'NW' for no warships, because it was very well understood that warships lagged the game, so if you play in those lobbies and break the rules, you're done, no one will play with you anymore. I imagine Scott had similar experiences playing DotA back in the day, I'm sure the game workedi n a similar system of trying to find lobbies to join, and gaining a bad reputation was probably going to make it hard to find games.
Games like DbD now are too big, and more importantly, in a system that does matchmaking for you, you don't have control over the lobbies. You can't kick someone from a lobby even if you recognize the player and don't want to play with them, all you can do is remove yourself, but that doesn't get the message to the undesirable, they don't get the feedback in that tactile way that no one likes how they play. Rules of play can't be listed for all to see before joining the lobby, a lot of people probably aren't even aware of this as a topic of discussion because they are just casual players like mentioned, but there are still probably a decent amount of players who play this game a lot but still don't engage in the community, some people just don't engage with out of game discussion areas, and games like DbD don't have a lot of in-game areas to talk to other players, some chat before and after a game, that's it. AoE3 used to have a whole section in the interface just for chat rooms, and these days a lot of games don't really have many in-game community features, they just assume everyone will use reddit.
My suggestion for fixing tunneling is to make it so if the killer's total hooks (that number in the bottom left) is equal to a survivor's hook state then any future hooks on that survivor just puts them back at the 2nd hook stage. This way all the killer has to do to actually get the kill is either camp the hooked survivor to death (which allows some counterplay with kinship, reassurance, etc) or just hook one other person one time. I feel like the way to fix tunneling is to give the tunneled survivor just enough time to get healed and go hide and I feel like one chase is just long enough for that to happen.
I disagree with people that saying that it isn't peoples responsibility how they decide to behave, because that is how the game is designed. Every person that posesses the mental capacity, is in fact at all times responsibile for their decisions and actions. Denying this seems to be a very prominent and popular in society these days. Not only in games or politics, but literally everywhere and all the time people try to shift their responsibilities, because nobody wants to be hold accountable for their decisions and actions. No one can force you to play a certain way, make decisions or how you act, but you are still responsible for however you decided to behave. If you get called out for your behaviour, maybe it's deserved maybe not, but a responsible grown up will try to look at the situation as objectivly as possible and selfreflect. Even if we feel like we're getting teased, bullied, provoked or hurt we are still responsible for how we decide to act.
For example, if you find money on the floor and see someone walking away (who may have lost it), it might be tempting to take the money and it might not be a legal offense. But you cannot place the blame or responsibility for your decision (to take the money, which you know isn't yours) on the situation or on the person who lost the money or that you need money or whatever. If someone calls you out for this antisocial behavior, you simply have to accept and acknowleadge the truth. The truth being you see yourself as a decent and good person, but in that situation you haven't acted like one so you'll have to try harder and become a better person that acts the way they want to be seen and sees themself.
They need to bring DS back to where it was before the recent nerf. 3 second is way too short. Five seconds was just long enough to get to a loop and be a deterrent for the killer to chase.
Killers had to put some effort and time if they wanted to tunnel through it before but now that no one is running it at all (because it’s trash now lol) killers simply don’t care.
Imagine trying to tell people not to get offended on the Internet. Kudos for the attempt, but that's just not going to happen. You could literally apologise and backtrack every word, only for someone to claim you apologised wrong.
As far as I'm concerned, if someone on reddit doesn't hate you, you aren't using the Internet correctly
Love this POV. As a survivor main with 5k+ hours, I refuse to use DH and hyper focus/stake out type builds because it's typically wholly unnecessary save for vsing full slowdown and even then not.. and since I mod for a killer main I've seen the damage DH can do.
Plus it's much more rewarding to be able to actually vs and beat some of the strongest, nastiest meta killer builds with a build consisting of desperate measures/no one left behind/guardian and something like FTP or autodidact or other. It's actually quite a fun build to use against camping/tunneling.
They never expect the quick grab and guardian prevents them from being able to ignore me and go look for the unhooked UNLESS they physically spot them because they're faster, leave no blood, no scratch marks and don't grunt. AND if it's after end game they get a 14% speed boost (from guardian and no one left behind stacking) on top of base kit BT boost.
This actually saved ME because I got hit when I went for the unhook and as we were running to the open door that teammate was fast enough to body block the killer from reaching me with base kit borrowed. It's games like that where my niche stuff works out so well that make it worthwhile.
the fact is that the same changes that were meant to give killers more time (90s gens, more and more gen regression perks, hit cooldown buffs…) so they dont feel as pressured to tunnel, actually now let them tunnel MORE efficiently
Hard disagree. You cannot make the community self-moderate, you are legitimately more likely to make the game better agitating for change on the developer's end then attempting to set up some ridiculous casual-play ruleset.
I could see some status effect that survivors gain for like a minute after being unhooked: 100% faster wiggle progress + added swinging, 50% faster healing when being slugged and free unbreakable.
You could still tunnel and down them, but you would need to have another hook really near to make it in time. And slugging would not be possible either. On the other hand, unhooked survivors still should not be able to bully/distract the killer, bc there is still a risk to being hooked twice, and being slugged would be time consuming even with some sort of unbreakable.
Considering endgames, the effects and/or the duration should be reduced when there are only 3 or 2 survivors left.
We have control over one single person, ourselves. We don't have control over anyone else, that is a big difference. Your point is very idealistic, but changing how the playerbase plays the game like some sort of political movement is just unrealistic. There's always the casuals, the morons, and others who don't pay attention to the discussion and the only way to get them to change is by changing the game.
Vile scott strikes again.
Wasn't your original video in response to Otz? So you're telling Otz he just needs to get better and play more?
I used to be quite at odds with a lot of Scott's commentary, usually leaning more towards Otz Darva's commentary on things more frequently. However the past couple of months things have flipped on their heads and I am in 100% agreement with Scott and am annoyed af with Otz's takes on things. Thank you Scott for calling things as you see it and speaking frankly. I appreciate your perspective and not just because I agree with you now. LOL 😆 I try not to play super sweaty as a killer because I know that as a survivor its not fun at all to go up against. We as a community can curve the camping and tunneling issue if we adjust our playstyles just a little. A little solidarity can go a long way.
I blame toxic swfs and Youtube killers! They taught and helped created these monsters now it’s too late the game is in an awful state because of it…Q times are awful…
I do recall your tweets a while back about tunnelling, and if I may vaguely quote, " idk why people don't like getting tunnelled, it's the most fun part of the game getting chased. Maybe that's why people were calling you disconnected or pompus. 90% of the player base (those casuals who keep the game alive)want to do the rift, progress challenges, try to have a single ounce of " fun ", Not get tunneled out of the game in 2 minutes. The whole " well, just get good and don't get tunnelled " (not saying you personally said that) answer also is not healthy for the game at all. I dont think you're super consistent with your views on things, though ig ppl change their minds over time…
but it IS the community's fault and nobody else's. The killer dictates how the game goes, not the survivor. The most killer sided patch in one of DBD's history, and killers are tunneling more than they have ever done in DBD's existence. This is not a competitive game, but people play so like they are winning money on the 13th of every month. Do killers honestly think tunneling is fun? Probably not, but they want a 4k, some god awful reason. Despite if Behavior set the game up now, so that tunneling is the best way to win, doesn't mean killers have to play that way, they choose to play that way. DBD is as bad as it is, because of the outcome of how they play. It's in no way dictated by survivors at all, and survivors have no way to prevent tunneling in any single way.
Saying you can win consistently while doing zero form of tunneling and camping is like saying it's easy to get rich playing roulette.
Last time I checked, most people ain't millionaires. I don't get this notion where people think we need to make the game fun for the people we play against. Such a weird mindset to have and I'll never understand it.
If I'm playing a game where the end result is losing or winning, why would I ever care whether the opponent is having an enjoyable experience? That is up to them, not me.
You saying, "You try to get better", people feel attacked, and are TAKING offense. When it's literally what's happening. You can only get better at something, by spending more time doing it. If you're not, you won't get better. It's not a big deal.
vilescott preaches to the choir for that sweet sweet youtube ad revenue
From my perspective as 70/30 survivor/killer split, the way I perceive the game is that killers often don't feel like they actually want to play the game in a normal or fun way, they want a 4k handed to them on a platter, now I know that this ISNT the case for all killers, but definitely some of them. For survivors the main gripe I hear is inability to just play the game, being camped/tunneled denies gameplay in the worst way imo. The survivor complaint that comes off as unrealistic is whining about hatch constantly, slow down perks, and obnoxious powers at times
The simplest solution to tunnelling is make it so when a survivor is unhooked if they are the next to be hit they gain a health state instead of losing one. It would take zero effort to implement and make tunnelling useless.
Also: this is a complete joke but true nonetheless.
Actual solution: quit playing dbd, which is what my swf and I did 🤷♀️
r/deadbydaylight is where you go if you want to be among the absolute bottom of the barrel DBD players, probably only second to /assg/. Of course they'd be upset.
title is irrelevant reddit is always mad at scott
i quit playing the game cause of the toxicity. i know its "not as bad" as other games, but i dont play those sorts of horribly toxic community driven games for a reason. just cause it gets worse doesnt mean i wanna stay here, yknow?
Calling everyone that disagrees with you a loser and posting their address was a bold move Scott, but I respect it
A lot of people think they're better than they actually are. To me camping in tunneling is a punishment to survivor mistakes. Heal in my line of sight? Congrats, you just lit up a neon 'Please tunnel me' sign. Body block too early? Ok you get to be slugged.
MMR thinks people are going to play to get better over time. Thats its main flaw… MMR can't see the difference between a huntress who landed 20+ hatchets in one game and a Buba that camped out 2 people. So killers who've won 2-300 chases total since they installed are being pitted against survivors who've escaped 1,000+ chases total since they installed because MMR can't tell the difference…
The idea that some great majority of the community could band together and not tunnel/camp/try hard so much when there is no in-game incentive to do so seems like more of a pipe dream to me than a half decent response from BHVR, and that’s saying something.
I also don’t think you’re ever going to “win” an argument when you’re making assumptions about what people should or could be doing with their time.
I must agree with the game being played at its absolute sweatiest is unfun. And I can say that is the case for every game, I feel we've been pushed a lot of high skill gameplay because it's entertaining to watch and could also inspire us to challenge ourselves to reach that point. I've played very high elo for League and Overwatch and can say I rarely had fun. I found myself playing bot games afterwards to decompress and just casually enjoy the game itself which showed me that going into every single game with the intention of dominating and climbing a ranked ladder can really take the fun and enjoyment out of a game. I do like to be competitive and play some sweaty games but it's easy to get burnt out on a game with that mindset.
Now that I have a 9-5 job in the bay area (as well as a 3 hour daily commute), I essentially have very little time to play games except for maybe an hour or so when I'm free that night. I regularly enjoy your content amongst Otz, Tofu, and a couple other but I haven't played dbd in about 3 months I'd say but I must say it's been more enjoyable watching you content creators bring fun videos and builds rather than playing myself.
This comment post kinda became a vent so my bad but anyways, great video Scott! Hope to catch your next stream 🙂
I think the idea that the community can band together and address the problem is a little bit of an old school idea that just can never work in todays gaming environment. When I was young and I'd play games online, for example I used to play Age of Empires 3, the community of people who are online is actually quite small compared to today. I would get on every day and see so many familiar names, people would become familiar with you, and if you didn't play in a way that the majority of the community agreed with, you would basically get blacklisted. Lobbies in AoE3 used to be listed with a number of rules tacked on the name like 'NW' for no warships, because it was very well understood that warships lagged the game, so if you play in those lobbies and break the rules, you're done, no one will play with you anymore. I imagine Scott had similar experiences playing DotA back in the day, I'm sure the game workedi n a similar system of trying to find lobbies to join, and gaining a bad reputation was probably going to make it hard to find games.
Games like DbD now are too big, and more importantly, in a system that does matchmaking for you, you don't have control over the lobbies. You can't kick someone from a lobby even if you recognize the player and don't want to play with them, all you can do is remove yourself, but that doesn't get the message to the undesirable, they don't get the feedback in that tactile way that no one likes how they play. Rules of play can't be listed for all to see before joining the lobby, a lot of people probably aren't even aware of this as a topic of discussion because they are just casual players like mentioned, but there are still probably a decent amount of players who play this game a lot but still don't engage in the community, some people just don't engage with out of game discussion areas, and games like DbD don't have a lot of in-game areas to talk to other players, some chat before and after a game, that's it. AoE3 used to have a whole section in the interface just for chat rooms, and these days a lot of games don't really have many in-game community features, they just assume everyone will use reddit.
Reddit OMEGALUL
My suggestion for fixing tunneling is to make it so if the killer's total hooks (that number in the bottom left) is equal to a survivor's hook state then any future hooks on that survivor just puts them back at the 2nd hook stage. This way all the killer has to do to actually get the kill is either camp the hooked survivor to death (which allows some counterplay with kinship, reassurance, etc) or just hook one other person one time. I feel like the way to fix tunneling is to give the tunneled survivor just enough time to get healed and go hide and I feel like one chase is just long enough for that to happen.
“Twitters mad at me but I don’t care because Twitter isn’t a real place”
-Dave Chapelle
i saw this one reddit, its insane tho i made a post in there myself agreeing with u simply because u where right
Nega-Scott using excuse after excuse for getting his jollies from torturing reddit
You look like an Elf
vile scott! where is dark mode reddit 🙂
I disagree with people that saying that it isn't peoples responsibility how they decide to behave, because that is how the game is designed. Every person that posesses the mental capacity, is in fact at all times responsibile for their decisions and actions. Denying this seems to be a very prominent and popular in society these days. Not only in games or politics, but literally everywhere and all the time people try to shift their responsibilities, because nobody wants to be hold accountable for their decisions and actions.
No one can force you to play a certain way, make decisions or how you act, but you are still responsible for however you decided to behave. If you get called out for your behaviour, maybe it's deserved maybe not, but a responsible grown up will try to look at the situation as objectivly as possible and selfreflect. Even if we feel like we're getting teased, bullied, provoked or hurt we are still responsible for how we decide to act.
For example, if you find money on the floor and see someone walking away (who may have lost it), it might be tempting to take the money and it might not be a legal offense. But you cannot place the blame or responsibility for your decision (to take the money, which you know isn't yours) on the situation or on the person who lost the money or that you need money or whatever. If someone calls you out for this antisocial behavior, you simply have to accept and acknowleadge the truth. The truth being you see yourself as a decent and good person, but in that situation you haven't acted like one so you'll have to try harder and become a better person that acts the way they want to be seen and sees themself.
Reddit is always mad, its like the opinion of a toddler who cares
Hex Devour Hope is how I play nice. Getting out before I get 5 hooks is very doable, but if you fail to do so or break my totem, WELL….
Very easy, just make ds 5 seconds again
after the coconut thing I guess the community is just ready to attack anything
They need to bring DS back to where it was before the recent nerf. 3 second is way too short. Five seconds was just long enough to get to a loop and be a deterrent for the killer to chase.
Killers had to put some effort and time if they wanted to tunnel through it before but now that no one is running it at all (because it’s trash now lol) killers simply don’t care.
Tunneling did get way worse since the DS nerf
Wait tittios 😂 I think Scott might be watching some naughty stuff
Imagine trying to tell people not to get offended on the Internet. Kudos for the attempt, but that's just not going to happen. You could literally apologise and backtrack every word, only for someone to claim you apologised wrong.
As far as I'm concerned, if someone on reddit doesn't hate you, you aren't using the Internet correctly
I have been playing as much as i used to, but when i do I haven’t encountered tunneling ! Anyone else?😊
no but thanks
Love this POV. As a survivor main with 5k+ hours, I refuse to use DH and hyper focus/stake out type builds because it's typically wholly unnecessary save for vsing full slowdown and even then not.. and since I mod for a killer main I've seen the damage DH can do.
Plus it's much more rewarding to be able to actually vs and beat some of the strongest, nastiest meta killer builds with a build consisting of desperate measures/no one left behind/guardian and something like FTP or autodidact or other. It's actually quite a fun build to use against camping/tunneling.
They never expect the quick grab and guardian prevents them from being able to ignore me and go look for the unhooked UNLESS they physically spot them because they're faster, leave no blood, no scratch marks and don't grunt. AND if it's after end game they get a 14% speed boost (from guardian and no one left behind stacking) on top of base kit BT boost.
This actually saved ME because I got hit when I went for the unhook and as we were running to the open door that teammate was fast enough to body block the killer from reaching me with base kit borrowed. It's games like that where my niche stuff works out so well that make it worthwhile.
You're my favorite niche content creator Scott much love
the fact is that the same changes that were meant to give killers more time (90s gens, more and more gen regression perks, hit cooldown buffs…) so they dont feel as pressured to tunnel, actually now let them tunnel MORE efficiently
Titty-os!!! Yes!!!
Hard disagree. You cannot make the community self-moderate, you are legitimately more likely to make the game better agitating for change on the developer's end then attempting to set up some ridiculous casual-play ruleset.
I could see some status effect that survivors gain for like a minute after being unhooked:
100% faster wiggle progress + added swinging, 50% faster healing when being slugged and free unbreakable.
You could still tunnel and down them, but you would need to have another hook really near to make it in time. And slugging would not be possible either.
On the other hand, unhooked survivors still should not be able to bully/distract the killer, bc there is still a risk to being hooked twice, and being slugged would be time consuming even with some sort of unbreakable.
Considering endgames, the effects and/or the duration should be reduced when there are only 3 or 2 survivors left.
We have control over one single person, ourselves. We don't have control over anyone else, that is a big difference. Your point is very idealistic, but changing how the playerbase plays the game like some sort of political movement is just unrealistic. There's always the casuals, the morons, and others who don't pay attention to the discussion and the only way to get them to change is by changing the game.
So what you're saying is, it's my fault individually ?
Vile Scott