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Going over why so many people are sore winners in this game.
http://www.twitch.tv/ScottJund
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Sore Winners in Dead by Daylight
Read more Dead by Daylight ➜ https://deadbydaylight.mgn.gg
Entitlement and sore winners are toxic though…they are a part of it
League of Legends is the most toxic community I've seen. It could be 5 years since you last played and your team of randoms in unraked will still chew you out for not making pro level e-sports plays.
Weirdly enough this is one of the main reasons I don’t play the game as much as I want. I get bagged almost every time I lose as killer and it’s just exhausting like yeah you beat me cool let’s move on I’d like to play more. Especially me being a clown main like you beat clown wow congrats
Yeah fair point Scott
Survivors following a trickster around for 5 minutes saboing every hook, etc. at end game chat the survs tell the killer to OFF themselves just because they wanted 1 single kill
Dbd in a nutshell
I really gotta disagree with you man. There's a LOT of busted addons, killer powers, offerings, etc in this game that anyone but a 4 man comp team would struggle against. And even some that comp teams lose to. I agree with your point overall, but I think that this game is one of the few games where at least a fifth of the matches you play will feel awful because of flaws in game design. Whether that be a busted killer like nurse or spirit with 4 slowdowns, a killer who's power has little counterplay like chucky or alien's tail, or a swf with a map offerings and background player to name a few. There's a lot in this game that feels like bullshit at all levels of play.
I play only killer and if the gates open, I stopped contesting them like a year ago. I just run to the other side of the map and kick Gens. You'd be shocked how many survivors flame me after the game because they didn't get a chance to teabag at the exit gates
I find it kinda interesting scott gets more sore winners as killer than as survivor. The only times I really get sore winners is on killer and its usually when I do something EXTREME, and I dont mean dbd entitled surv main extreme (which usually means you didnt actually even do it) I mean like extremes like slugging for long long periods or camping pretty hard or something equally BM'y. As a survivor however, I have gotten so many sore winners playing against killers for usually just playing the game, looping too long, cleansing their favorite hex, using certain perks etcetc.
BMing as a killer means you got emotional.
Dark Souls blows DBD out of the water in terms of toxicity lol. Something that was consistent in all those games was how utterly enraged people would get when the host didn't follow their imaginary PvP rules. The entitlement to invade someone's world and expect them to honor your rules was always a joke, but something seen in every game. Even though they added red summon signs and wasted dlc/base content on PvP arenas it was never enough lol.
scott out here really making me feel good for not bm'ing my adversary
Honestly, being a sore looser is one thing. Its understandable salt, because many losses in a row can be exhausting mentally.
But being a sore winner, is just mega cringe. Congratulations, your bullyed a new player or a player who was just trying to relax.
I ageee with all your points, but I also know the "justified" is the minority compared to the being a dick for the hell of it reason. I've seen more shitty people than people that do it because they perceived me doing something "unfair"
I think a lot of it isn't even a perception of something being unfair. A lot of it is just perceiving anything that annoys them as being rude, and wanting to be rude back. Like, most half-decent players recognize that bully squads whose entire gameplan centers around forcing the killer to slug and then punishing them for slugging don't tend to be very effective because they aren't doing gens and the killer will always be able to slug harder than the survs can pick each other up with enough persistence, but that kind of playstyle is extremely annoying to go against if you just want to play the game normally, and there's no way that the survivors don't know that it's annoying to play against. It is entirely understandable, at that point, for the killer to have the thought of "these people are intentionally trying to irritate me, and that's rude." And once you've had that thought, it becomes very easy to justify being rude back.
And like, obviously, none of this is to say that it's correct for a player to be rude back, by any means (or even that annoying playstyles are necessarily BM), just that in my experience, it's often less of an "I have overcome something unfair" response and more of an "I believe my opponent's playstyle is inherently BM, so I am going to BM them back" response. One could say that the latter is effectively the same as the former, but I would disagree. There's a lot of stuff that's annoying enough to feel like BM when you experience it that is very easy to defeat.
I mostly agree with you, and I rarely do. But, I think the only stuff that is really being toxic/sore winner is T-bagging at the gates till the timer runs out or unnecessarily humping until they bleed out when you couldve hooked. Because those two things prolong a game that should already be over. If i've been sabo squaded all match and smack them on hook till the entity comes in or survivors Tbag me for a tunnel fail and then leave accordingly, I dont think that's being a sore winner, just DBD's version of smack talk. If you cant just indulge, have a laugh and move on, that's sore winning.
It really does baffle me when people say that dbd has a really toxic community, I think I've had more gg messages in this game than anything else I've played, it's very open and accepting for all kinds of people too.
I know its an overused meme but the people chatting about how toxic dbd is wouldn't have lasted a day in 2009 cod lobby, the shit I used to hear back then was crazy.
I think there is a lot of truth to this because more often than not it is players that aren't very good at the game and perceive something as unfair and then you'll see other bad players validate this behaviour which only encourages more, usually when I'm bmed at the exit gate is when I've had a really good match and close the hatch and doors are really far apart and the survivor gets the gate and will T bag at the exit but personally I don't really care, the only time where things like this have gotten to me is because I'm already in a bad mood because of something outside of the game and sometimes I can project that onto those players but for the most part I'm able to brush it off
Hey Scott have you ever heard of spook n jukes???
yes!! one thing ive noticed is that the closer the game is, the more likely survivors are to be rude at the end. why? because they overcame an unfair challenge!
i think this is because survivors who think in the way that leads to BMing think theyre the only one that exists. the killer isn't chasing them because they're supposed to chase people; the killer is chasing them because they're too important to ignore. essentially, EVERY game is a game where they escaped a tunnel.
that's my 2¢ on the matter, at least.
This is gonna be a controversial take, but I'm no stranger to saying them (:UhMeow:), so here goes.
I teabag as both roles, and in every game, even singleplayer games because it's just a funny animation to me and doing it to another player is the videogame equivalent of friendly trashtalk among friends. That said, *stop giving a goofy animation on a screen so much power over your mental you chucklefucks*.
Dude u cannot say tho community is one of the least toxic. I get messaged trash talk on this game any time I play it. It’s super toxic.
PSA: ghostface doesn’t have to T-bag at the gates. If he’s clearly shown that he doesn’t want to for whatever reason, please leave it at that.
Just recently i was playing a match and my dog wanted attention, so i Just went afk and played fetch with her, i didnt expect someone to post a comment on my profile saying i gave up because he was looping me and mocked the fact that i have 7k hours on dbd, People need to realize the World doesnt revolver around then.
Great timing on this video, I decided to main Freddy for a couple days (first mistake) and have been dealing with excessively poor sports and for some reason homophobia. Been wondering about the psychology behind BMing someone who was already at a disadvantage.
IMO, people who let in game things trigger them just shouldn't play. The humping is probably the most character revealing thing one can do in game, I guess. People who do that are immature or vile. But crouching up and down? If that triggers you, I dont think online gaming is for you.
it's not a skill issue if you aren't going to be forced to equip the same 4 perks to counter tunneling. and even then, it doesn't help always. that is such a bad faith argument! to blame survivors for being tunneled because they don't have the anti tunnel perks acquired is absurd. there's about 100 perks and you want me to only use 4 of them? no wonder the game is so boring and miserable.
The reason is I can play with DS, DH, Windows and Distortion…all my matches but I noticed I escape alone, and makes altruism harder….makes these games more boring specially going against Trapper, Wraith, etc you know those mid tier killers, but if I try a more relaxed build like Botany, Bond, WGLF, maybe nefted MFT then you get those insane P100 killers or Nurse/Blight – I guess all im saying is I wish we got the info on the killer or to know if we wanna game or really compete
It’s why I just don’t even bother looking at postgame chat anymore. I just quickly type gg wp then go about my day. Sometimes not even that, I’ll just spam the continue button. Maybe the toxicity in DbD isn’t as bad as other communities, but it’s still there.
Scott what do you think about ds "buff" – not 5 sec stun?
Why t-bag when you can walk through the exit gates in front of the killer. That's the best revenge.
I think in terms of toxicity, voice chat in games like cod definitely can be an outlet for terrible stuff, but simultaneously it's incredibly easy to "counter" if you turn off comms. Dead by daylight is asymmetrical and has always struggled with balance, which means you have far more opportunities for toxic behavior in the game itself compared to most of those communities. In cod you camp or friendly fire if possible sure, dark souls has "broken" builds and gesture spam, but dbd you can rig the entire game in your favor with broken tools on either side pretty heavily along with purely toxic and non beneficial behavior like ignoring gens to mess with the killer or bleeding everyone out even if you don't know they have unbreakable. Also it feels like some pretty strong gaslighting to equate finding something toxic to a skill issue. Even at the highest levels of play there are inherently unfun/toxic setups, although they've been slowly getting ironed out bit by bit, and a lot of this is ignoring cheating which coincides with toxicity, along with stream sniping which is a very prevalent issue in the game with how many people throw ttv in their profile name
As killer I'm insulted if I don't see teabags in the exit gate
How about the p100 nurses who slug 5 minutes at 5 gens and refuse to pick anybody up and hook them, and after that saying "gg" in end game chat?
idk if it's just cuz I'm dumb but I always saw the tea bagging at the exit gate as a funny little gg and I never got mad at it. If anything it made me feel better but that might just be me.
Nah i lose because im bad
While I agree that someone being a sore winner is usually comes from a place of retribution, ego inflation, and/or superiority (and attempting to disprove personal insecurities about those things), I think there's more to say about why DBD specifically is like this (see: the weirdos going gg ez in my Overwatch 2 quickplay matches >.>), specifically I think a big factor making it worse for DBD is bc it's asymmetrical.
Although like you said there's so many variables it's hard to definitively pin down any one thing as the biggest offender, and the true answer is likely a combination of many variables, I think this is still worth talking about more. I think the primary reason DBD has a bigger sore winner problem than other titles is the game's asymmetrical nature. With symmetrical games, it's always at least theoretically fair; barring RNG elements and skill differentials (hence where most toxicity comes from in those games), you have access to mostly the same resources as everyone else and everyone generally has an at least somewhat similar gameplay experience.
Valorant is a good example of this; each Agent and gun lends themselves to differing playstyles but both teams are all still shooting a gun and tactically pushing and holding angles to complete an objective. Overwatch is a bit more of a middleground; each Hero and role has quite different playstyles from each other but both teams still have access to the same resources and you're all still filling the same roles and working towards common objectives. Even games with a draft pick system, most of the time you at least theoretically could've still had the resources the other team has but chose not to, and you had access to the same denial of resources as the other team. (Although these games' objectives may be slightly asymmetrical, it's also random so this isn't really a huge factor; no one's rolling their eyes at entitled Defender players in Overwatch or Valorant).
Dead by Daylight's asymmetrical nature means that both teams are not only working with entirely different options and resources (made worse by the vast power differencial of optional unlockable resources) or working towards different objectives, they might as well be playing two entirely different games. This disconnect creates a huge gap in understanding between those who only engage with one of the two sides of the game (and being two different games, you can hardly blame people for not having time to/not wanting to play both sides). With this lack of understanding of other people, there's a lack of empathy and it's hard to relate to each other, which makes it easier to feel wronged by or unfairly treated by that other side and thus easier to justify retribution or other toxicity.
I also don't think saying this is a skill issue resolves anything (not that you claimed it did, but I wanted to clarify). Like, it's true, but it was already a skill issue with human social self-moderation so it doesn't matter much that it's also a videogame skill issue too. And I don't think dunking on them solves anything either, even if it's kinda funny, telling a sore winner that them doing that is a skill issue for xyz reason would only make things worse. It's a hard thing to improve though.
(Stuff like this makes me wish there were more asymmetrical games like DBD that were around and popular for long enough to have a developed and decently sized community so we can easier compare and contrast what variables are impacting this, like other genres like FPS games have plenty of outside examples and precidents to use to diagnose roots of frustrations and such.)
Not going to lie the idea of bleeding out a sabo squad on ground is hilarious retribution given that they were literally stopping the killer from hooking to begin with.
A big part of it is retribution. You made my life unfun so I'm returning the favor.
If anyone is eternally in a bad mood because of DBD, or any multiplayer game for that matter (but for me it was DBD), start playing games or gamemodes that arent pvp. I promise you, after giving up DBD as my primary video game, my general mood improved so much, and it put into perspective how much the playerbase's enjoyment is dependant on other people.
Edit: I put this up top cuz it’s more important, these people are sore winners because of something they are unhappy about in their personal lives, they don’t have the willpower or motivation to fix it so they are miserable and want to distract themselves from how hollow they are while making others feels bad like they do deep down, it’s nothing to do with dbd, if this game didn’t make it so incredibly easy to BM the other side and still win they’d do it on another game
I switched from console to PC like a year and a half ago, DBD was soo much more incredibly toxic on console, especially in the early days before some sort of balance came to the game… people would message you for hours fixated on one thing that happened, on steam some weirdos will add you but obviously you just decline it, on console you’d have deranged losers make fresh accounts just to message you for dropping the convo
IMO sore winners are prevalent in asym games because unless you play/understand both sides extensively, you lack perspective on how well/poorly the other side played. This creates a disconnect that you might not see in a shooter like CS where everyone is on the same playing field – you inherently understand your opponents
I think that's the reason why survivors are more likely to be sore winners. It's the harder role so it's hard to just escape once if you're new.