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Dowsey recently threw down a gauntlet and called on the Fog Whisperers to quite the programme to make a stand against Behavior and the cheating/hacking issues that have been plaguing the game of Dead By Daylight recently… But was he right to do so?
What could the effects be of such a decision if followed? Let’s talk about it! I’d love to hear your thoughts in the comments and if you enjoyed the video, remember to leave a like and subscribe for more Dead By Daylight content! 😀
Dowsey’s video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cMy4R5etg1M&t=1881s
Chapters:
0:00 Introduction
0:49 What did Dowsey say about Fog Whisperers?
1:41 What are Fog Whisperers?
3:00 Potential Positives
3:52 Potential Negatives
7:30 My Thoughts & Conclusions
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Endcard music: ‘Crown’ by Neffex
#dbd #dowsey #fogwhisperer
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Players in general leaving the game would get BHVR's attention. Stop playing the game and buying the cosmetics and dlc. Take a stand yourself instead of expecting others to do it for you.
The way I look at it is the fog whisperers are not the ones severing the relationship, BHVR have already done that by not listening or caring enough about very obvious big problems and if BHVR make their fog whisperers feel like they're walking on eggshells just because they're giving their valid criticism, then there's really no positive relationship to begin with, that's just controlling. I don't think it's right for anyone to make someone feel scared or feel like there will be unnecessary consequences to speak their honest concerns as long as it's not offensive or anything like that.
If Fog Whisperers leave and it does kill the game, then I don't blame them, I blame BHVR and if it's on that kind of tight rope of being easily killed like that, then so be it. They've done this to their own game and people don't want to rely on a game that's that easy to just die and people are fed up of them not listening and wasting their time changing things that no one asked for instead of working on massive problems ruining the game.
Finally, it's like when they took away Dowsey's earned content over a non-offensive meme about something 90 percent of the community agreed was stupid for the game. That tells me that they're not very mature themselves and can't handle or even listen to criticism even when most the community are in agreement that it's bad and not working.
As multiple people have already stated, BHVR is taking steps to prevent what is happening already, and things like that take time. Especially since DbD has such a large community. Also, as you've stated in your video, there are more cons than there are pros to the fog whisperers leaving the program. On both ends…
BHVR doesnt have the community's trust, and honestly? They earned that. Time and again, they have done shady things, made choices despite large feedback against it, and told people they "are working on it" on many issues and then shirk them for a long time (2 years for mass cheating is a HUGE deal)
However, should all Fog Whisperers leave? if you want the game to die, sure. if one or two leave, thats a fire. if they all leave, they get nuked. the first is a pinch to get attention. the second is a shotgun blast to the head. This is before considering that many Fog Whisperers require the game for their living at this time, so saying "just stop working and make no money" is a bit more questionable and scary for many. Not to mention that BHVR is very…incompetent. They may decide "since you leave, stay out!" which makes it much worse for the Fog Whisperers in general.
So what, do nothing? The common player needs to do something. stop playing. protest. Make them notice the damage through thwir wallet and make the message clear. "If you wont fix this shit, we cant play. so if you dont fix, we dont play". Fog Whisperers have issues to worry about, such as living expenses, but the common player does NOT.
why do you think Fog Whisperers are effective? its not just them playing, but the people who watch thanks to them and play thanks to them. Its tbeir community that makes them impactful. so if you REALLY care, skip the middle man. stop playing. light the fire under their ass and make BHVR behave and take the situation seriously.
dowsy is right like the balancing issues have been tone deff allowing the survivors to get back up puts the game right back in the survivors favor and dumpsters certin killers and heck less players means they will have to listen sometimes you have to hurt the game a little and once it is safer come back its as simple as that. and if behavior wants to be petty if they leave then honestly are they worth supporting?
I also fear that if some Fog whisperer's choose to leave, those that wouldn't want to leave would just get called out for not leaving and receive negativity. It's a tough situation honestly.
"content creators don't effect who plays a game" what happened to WoW when Asmongold hopped to FFXIV?
lets be honest here the cheaters were kind of right ,they have BHVR by the balls literally,i dont think the excuse of they cant just give the cheaters a heads up is a moot point because the cheaters dont have to do much brainwork to even find out what the fuck was fixed they have more ability to literally bend the game, over and do what they want with it by this point i dont think bhvr really knows what the fuck they're doing and is only saying theyve banned cheaters to save face.You cant tell me that with every move behavior makes the cheaters are literally 3 steps ahead of them.This game is a joke in terms of security you honestly think 200 k cheaters being banned is doing sh*t to fix anything.Creators like otz are literally tong tied because if they say anything negative without carefully selecting their words its gonna cause a problem with behavior.But its not healthy for a game to live in an echo chamber of yes men and jerking themselves off at every update because ultimately thats whats going to kill the game .To say this is frustrating is an understatement ,seeing this game being where it was in the beginning and seeing every ounce of creativity and passion being sucked out faster than a college fraternity house on a friday over time ,its not only sad but infuriating.And it really hits hard when games like identity v has more creativity than the game it was heavily inspired on or hell even the other dbd knockoffs are miles ahead of this garbage fire.Honestly i hate to be this angry over a game but it needs to be said and i cant take people praising BHVR seriously at this point.
Behavior doesn't really listen to their Fog Whisperers though! This is just my opinion but I would leave because if they are not listening to me then why am I a Fog Whisperer! Sure they brought to light how many hackers have been banned, but it just kind of looked to me as the same thing that was already implemented and wasn't really working at least from my point of view! I'm sure for the amazing Streamers who are Fog Whisperers are sick and tired of being stream sniped and then held hostage for hours! I'd be pretty pissed if i was in their shoes!
Easy for Drowsey to call out the current Fog Whisperers when he's already lost his Fog Whisperer status lol. If all the FWs leave, I truly don't see anything coming from it. Like trying to bail water out of a boat full of holes. Solid effort but the end result is the same.
It seems to be a touchy subject. I have talked to former fog whisperers that choosed to leave the program,OR they got booted out for all i know. Theese are not toxic individuals,they are actually contributing with positive experiences for everyone they meet ingame,if its as killer or survivor,as well as being informative and educative towards new viewers of DBD.
Anyway back to the point,as you mentioned abit in the video,if a Fog Whisperer dares to speak theyr minds,they get negative consequences from Bhvr. Now,does being a partner require you to be a total kissass? No…. There are buisnesses out there with partners,and if the partners arent happy with what you do/represent,they demand changes or they are pulling out as partners. And then the buisnesses listen and will change or lose heavily on this.
Its also a touchy subject for me,as i know many that are fog whisperers,they call me a friend at this point after years and years in theyr communities. And it pains me to "give them crap" of any sort,but i also cant stand the "totally biased,complete kissass" personalities,because i know thats not them 100%. It might be them 95%,but they are holding back opinions and ideas because they are pretty much stepping on egg shells,not to get backfire from Bhvr.
I understand the delicate situation,but if i were a fog whisperer,i would defintly let them know that i would be brutally honest,if it was something really positive or something really negative. I would rather be 100% true to my viewers,and therefor represent myself in a fair way as a partner. But as Bhvr sees it (it seems like),is that you are a happy go lucky nodding doll that turns a blind eye towards all the BS going on,and instead be insanely positive towards theyr cosmetics,to have the viewers focusing on something else…..Thats the "rule of partnership".
It doesnt paint a good picture when people have gotten to know a person well enough,and understands that they dont really dare to speak theyr minds,as some of them have "Bhvr staff" constantly in chat as moderators and what not. Some fog whisperers says that Bhvr never stops by theyr chat,most often this is Fog Whisperers that will say exactly what they feel like,at any given moment. But for the most part puts the DBD community,themselfs and the devs in a respectable,positive light.
The ones that has Bhvr staff as moderators etc,always seems to be the ones with a constant "happy go lucky" fasade to eveything the devs does,even when the rest of the community is in outrage towards them. It should blink some red lights when all they can say positive is how good cosmetics,how good maps they make (wich lately has been a complete lie,especially the Haddonfield re-work is horrific) And its not fun when you see people who are so defensive towards the devs,start to develop mental health issues and get burnt out on DBD as a result…..
So where do we draw the line? To be fair,we have given Bhvr 6 years to improve the game. To be honest with you,remembering all the glitches on earlier stages,i would rather take DBD back to thoose times again,as the games were fun at least. Killers put on map pressure and eventhough some completely tunnel visioned you through 4-5 gen chases,to then facecamp you in pure rage they only put on themselfs,over 95% of the games back then had great variation. You never knew what you were gonna get next! That was the beauty with DBD,a casual gamer could go from a 5 gen chase,to be completely destroyed in the next,but it mostly were done in fair conditions. Yes of course there were your facecampers and tunnelers back then too,but they were actually quite rare. it was a every now and then type of thing. Now its in just about every match,especially solo queues. To a point where i havent grinded this game in 2 years soon,give or take. I only accept rare SWF invitations,and they dont make me want to start grinding the game again.
Okay,regarding the cheater problem maybe we can give the devs some time to prove that what they are actually working on,will be for the better of "normal lobbies". But for everything else,i think its fair to say that 6 years has been more then enough time,and they simply cant improve the game. They even go above and beyond now to make sure DBD loses the rest of its community. The PTB changes has gotten tons of responses like "If this actually goes live,im quitting DBD for good". What i have tried to say even to Bhvr,is that survivors are worn out,theyr motivation are already running low as it is. Just see how many gives zero capitol Fs about the DC penalty theese days. Not one streamer i visit daily has not gotten at least 10-20+ DCs during theyr entire stream.
Bhvr should tread carefully with pushing this game too much in the killers direction. They already ruined alot of perks that casual,non sweaty gamers were relying on to make somewhat desent gameplay. The data doesnt lie,i see a huge amount of survivors barely getting above 5-6K in bloodpoints pr match,while killers are being extra,toying themselfs to a 4K and 30-40 000 in BPs.
DBD is in a tragic state right now,lets face the facts. If i was a developer,i would be concerned and make the game fun again for all parts. (Raising bloodpoints ingame doesnt do anything) We all know what fun games experiences? a larger playerbase,it becomes popular again.
Like i said in a previous comment,this game might be the game i was THE most passionate about. I played both killer and survivor then,now i only play survivor as i dont find killer challenging anymore. Besides,i lack motivation on both sides now. I used to try to talk people into start playing it with me back in the day,i had only positives to say. Except for the many bugs and glitches,but i managed to look past them. I hate sounding negative as i am a positive minded person,but almost everything Bhvr has done recently just frustrates the living daylights out of me,as im seeing where this is going. And i know many a fog whisperer feels the same way,they simply dont dare to speak theyr minds in public,as they want to cling onto theyr partnership and ingame goods.
Not how i would have handled things,but i cant do anything but respect especially thoose who considers me a friend. I do hope that Bhvrs anti cheat ongoing work will prove very useful for the streamers out there especially. As for other issues like "game = having fun",that obviously only counts towards killers in Bhvr eyes. If you get taken out right from the start of a game,what does 100% BPs do,when you left the game with 2000 BP? 4000BP is a disgrace. You could might as well play tutorial bots for zero BPs. Im sorry for any spell blunders or just "odd way or formulating sentences". Serious lack of sleep has the brain working in mysterious ways lol.
More than a small contingent are convinced that BHVR specifically asked Fog Whisperers to disagree with and discredit Dowsey's take. Some will take this video as an extension of that. Not weighing in, just stating facts pertinent to this discussion.
Separately: BHVR has explicitly not done anything about cheaters. As I will say on every video making that false claim until something impactful is actually done, a roadmap is nothing but promises – and BHVR has a history of their promises falling through or backfiring. If your bar is so low that you think public acknowledgement is progress, you're not adding anything tangible either.
The entirety of the fog whisperer program is horribly done. Behavior is not looking for people who will make their game better but punching bags who won't complain about how lazy and irresponsible they are.
Behavior is one of the most petty companies I've seen in a long time. They're revoked special rewards such as dowesy's twitch shirts for speaking out against a hacking epidemic that is actively ruining their game, they removed Edgar Allen Bro's fog whisperer status over a tweet he made a response to (the tweet was kek or lol idk which) upon hearing something bad happened to a close friend of his, and overall they couldn't give a shit about their community. Behavior is a terrible company when it comes to community outreach and engagement
The Pokemon Go community did something similar and also got behind one of their biggest streamers when he Niantic yanked his ambassadorship. They got tired of Pokemon Go keeping them in the dark and changes made to the game and Niantic heard them loud and clear and changes a few things back.
People who say influencers don't INFLUENCE other people to make a decision might want to check why they are called influencers in the first place. I am not like a huge mega fan of one dowsey (Or Spooky or Otz) but I remember that I wanted to become a fog whisperer really badly. I thought, though, I'm way to bad at the game to be one, seeing who is one and how good they are. Still wanted to be one. Then I came across the dowsey lost his twitch shirts and was kicked out of the program content… and again…not a fan, but after seeing his own and other peoples takes on it I was like "okay maybe I don't want to be a fog whisperer after all" So yeah it influenced my opinion. I still don't have it crossed off my mind entirely, because it is one of my most favorite games and I'd love to represent it and promote it to others (the latter I already do on a daily I feel) So I guess if I was approached by them and asked, I'd still say yes. I'd still think its a huge opportunity, despite all the negative stuff going around, but it did get me thinking and even straight up saying "nevermind" for a long time. And sure, maybe I am more "influencable" than others, but this happens and not just to a few. People value the opinion of people they view as more knowledgeable about a subject. And Fog Whisperers are viewed as more knowledgable. Big content creators also tend to have this status of knowing what they are talking about more than me the puny viewer. That's just how it is, there is no denying that dynamic. Again, even though i hate the word influencer, but that is what you do, you influence your following.
They don't listen to dowsey anyway because he's just a streamer not a game developer
Big talk from Dowsey after how hard he kissed up to Hellbent and talked a big game about how much fun Monster was so that he could get into their Rewinders program. Then the game came out and he didn't play monster at all, because turns out that game had some flaws and people were pretending it didn't to become Rewinders, Dowsey included.
Had to google Pride flags to figure out the Beanie…. intriguing 😛
People are quitting mainly on surv side it takes 5-10 mins sometimes to get a game as a killer. If you don't believe me then why is the 100% BP bonus always on surv? It's always on surv bc theirs hardly any playing anymore. I've been running into the same players and killers a lot more too. The game is getting worse the first update with deadhard getting nerfed was a good step in the right direction now with this awful new mori system they went back into the wrong direction again… On top of that the cheaters and the hacking bot killers this game is in a mess.
Love AD but this argument is essentially "They can't pay their employees a living wage or they will go out of buisness!" Dowsey is essentially saying Unionize, and you're saying… don't do that, it might hurt the bosses. If the FW decide to up and leave the program to make a statement and BHVR decides they need to be punished for making them look bad, well, then that was the right choice to leave. Stop defending twat companies from treating their employees, representatives and customers as if they are required to put up with the bullshit they put out. And yes, before anyone wants to try and say the FW are not employees, they do serve the exact same purpose for this analogy.
Another way to look at it would be a toxic and abusive relationship. BHVR treats their FW and most of the players in general like they are beneath them and that we should be lucky to have them. Again, you're selling that idea with your argument. "I know they treat you like shit, I know they don't listen, I know what they are doing is unhealthy, but hear me out, if you leave them they will be sad and mad and might hurt you, so don't leave them." You're advocating for the FW to stay in the program regardless of the reasons they probably should leave just so the game itself doesn't take a hit.
For someone who goes out of their way to promote positivity you sure are doing the exact opposite with this video and statement. You're saying they/we should just suck it up and deal with the negativity by doing nothing and that they/we should just accept being a whipped dog so that YOU and others still have a game to play at the end of the day.
You have a lot of videos promoting the removal toxicity from DbD and the community, when the idea of holding the developers and owners to the same ideal you suddenly just… stop. I am now questioning validity of all your call out videos, cause when the biggest culprit is being called out and exposed you all of a sudden are advocating for the asshat being toxic. You have said several times those types don't deserve a platform, yet when that same line of thought is applied to BHVR you all of a sudden advocate that they do deserve the platform to make money? Did you make those videos to call out toxicity or did you simply make those videos for clicks alone? I am seriously question this now. You're promotion of the removal of toxicity from this community seems to be nothing more then grandstanding if you believe that BHVR shouldn't be held to the same ideals that you put forth for everyone else.
I feel like it would have to be a thing that they all (or the majority of them) agree on and do together. A handful of people leaving it may not do much, unless it’s one of the more well known streamers.
That being said, BHVR has said time and time again that they’re going to run the game the way they want, so it may not necessarily do anything regardless of how many people leave. 🤷
Aaron you or Danny don't send us hearts no more 😭😭😭
If the Fog whisperes left the rogram I don't think it would affect the game. The game was doing very well before the program existed. There is a lot to be said for someone to leave because the dev is not supporting their concern. If the company is going to hold a grudge maybe that's sign to not work with them.
What Dowsey seems to fail to realise is that its literally their living for a lot of them. Dowsey is still salty he isn't a fog whisper so he's trying to get others to leave it.
If people really want BHVR to change they need competition. If I'm not mistaken In Silence is almost like DBD. Not sure how good it did but it looked like it could give BHVR a run for their money.
SO the road map they put out after everyone is trying to hold them accountable for the fact they still have not fixed the IP leaking issue from over a year ago. I am supposed to believe a company that has no problem putting out new cosmetics to make money off their community but can barely do the bare minimum to make their community safe is actually being honest this time? I dunno.
So I’ve been playing for 4 years. And idk if I’m just really shit at the game and in really low MMR but I never see cheaters… like ever. So is this happening to the general population of the community or mostly streamers? Or maybe I’ve played with people who are super subtly cheating and I’m just not aware of it.
The moral right is for the Fog Whisperers to leave the program. They basically get nothing for being a member and BHVR gets everything. Exposure, community hype, rabid fanbase.
So you either do the right thing, or continue to be a tool.
And IIRC tools can't speak. SO if the "Fog Whisperers" do not do the right thing, then they need to shut the fuck up and take it, like good tools.
Which are you I wonder.
One thing that always shows that influencers do have , well influence, is when one of them says that they hate going up against a specific killer and suddenly hundreds of people hate it too
The issue here is how BHVR operates. They say very little about what they're doing and don't stray from their release schedules. They're communication is awful and their image comes across very negative especially due to the fact they are negligent to pressing game issues and they hold grudges which is unprofessional at best and downright egregious at worst.
I think Fog Whisperers should speak out first, see what happens, if nothing or very little happens, or worse BHVR removes them, then the rest should leave. If they speak out and BHVR do positive, then great. They need to be held accountable as a company. If they take your money and spit in your face, you shouldn't be giving them money.
How could you ever wish for change yet be content with the confines given to you by a group,person,organization,your own mind, or anything else of the sort, Dowsey is 100 percent correct,clinging onto the devs who can’t tell their head from their elbow isn’t going to work the dbd community has done that with every single issue the game as ever had and they have never delivered on anything besides being failures if u want to push for change you need to be the change all the fog whispers should disown the game and the whole community should go on strike if they feel so strong about the games issues, but no of course your all content with BVHR’S bare minimum
Dowsey really wants everyone to be as miserable as he is. He's not that funny, he doesn't know how to give proper constructive criticism, and he and his community love saying "don't take the game to seriously, it's just a game" but in the same breathe bitch about the game.
Its funny how all of the issues with the game come from players
I wouldn't blame any fog whisperer for leaving the program and I don't think dowsey is wrong bhvr has been almost constantly shitting the bed for 2 years with small moments of true amazingness the bad outweighs the good by tons and they keep buffing what needs nerfing and nerfing what needs buffing and acting like it's groundbreaking it's been lack luster af for like 3 updates and where there has been good that should be noted it's just eclipsed by all the bullshit
I fully agree with dowsey, with how bad the cheaters are rn it is a final straw for a lot of people. so many have left the game already so BVHR need to do something otherwise the rest will be gone too