Read more Dead by Daylight ➜ https://deadbydaylight.mgn.gg
http://www.twitch.tv/ScottJund
https://discord.gg/TheBreaderhood
source
Read more Dead by Daylight ➜ https://deadbydaylight.mgn.gg
http://www.twitch.tv/ScottJund
https://discord.gg/TheBreaderhood
source
immagine those ego champ that put TOP MMR EU or some other bs in their streaming title without actually know your mmr
tl;dr play a different game if you're not having fun. If you really want BHVR to fix/change DBD, show them with a player count, not raging at them on twitter or in their forums.
What was more exciting for you: your first 10 hours or your most recent 10? Probably your first 10 hours. Games are just genuinely more fun when you don't know whats going on. It's why people quit games after a while, they know whats going on in the game and there's nothing new and exciting. With multiplayer games like this, it eventually reaches a critical mass where players are so bored with the game, they start becoming toxic and blaming OTHERS for not having fun or they blame the developers or the game or anything but just them being bored with it.
The biggest problem in DBD's case is that DBD is kinda the only game available right now that does the 4v1 genre pretty well. There's not really any other game like it (that has active players or is publicly available). People continue to play DBD because of that sunken-cost fallacy, instead of just moving onto a new game.
The real reason I hate MMR is how it interacts with perks.
With the old system, you would face perk variety, there would still be a lot of people with meta builds but usually not all 4 survivors.
Now the fact that the MMR is escape/kill based (*cough* perk based) makes it so if you win most games as killer, you are only going to face people that are using the strongest builds that carry them to escape rather than actual good loopers that use worse builds.
The problem is this issue is constantly visible because at ANY point of the MMR spectrum, you won't face people with equal skill to you, you'll face people with worse skill that use the best perks (this is true for both killers and survivors) which means you constantly see the same perks over and over.
I would be so much happier to face an insane blight or insane survivors rather than terrible killers/survivors that just E to outplay or use 4 slowdowns. A blight with Shadowborn/BBQ shouldn't be getting the same MMR requirements as a Blight with Alchemist Ring Crow 4 slowdowns.
i think it works for me.. atleast for the killers i play against..
yesterday i chek'd hours on every killer i played against and most of them had alot .. mostly over 4 k hours
doesn't mean they're good but i see it alot more often now
i still get casuals but it's very rare except my teammates
they're still boosted <3
As survivor I often bump into killers spending the whole game afk to try to purposely lower their mmr, I ran into 3 in a row yesterday. All mmr did was give experienced people the option to intentionally go against brand new players with in game mechanics and that's the problem in my eyes
@Scott Jund I have a better theory on why MMR is so F'd up. My personal experience as an example. I check profiles. I get sweaty SWF the vast majority of my lobbies, I have no business going up against. How would that be?
Well… I think MMR at its core is so rotten, that it probably (fictional numbers just to explain the theory) gives you +50 MMR when you 4k that potato solo lobby. And then I get 3 sweaty games in a row, I get 1k, 0K, 0K. Every one of those games I probably only lost -10 MMR, for a total of -30. And THAT is how so many killers are having an awful experience, They really ARE all at high MMR, cause they can't get away from it due to faulty MMR increases/decreases.
How else would you explain the awfull ratio I am getting with my lobbies? If I am lucky it is 1:3 potato:Swf, but often a play session would be more like 1:5. Either way I am not having fun, potatoes go down in 10secs, no fun. SWF don't go down at all, no hooks no fun.
I am 100% open to theories that can debunk mine, and explain the awful killer experience.
Play how you like, who cares about the "rulebook" if you're in endgame and camp? That's expected. Tunneling off hook? Go for it, flashlight spamming, Sabo spamming, tea bagging. It's a game, if actions in a game hurt you so bad that you flame and b*tch at people who do.. why? If you lose, you go back to the main menu, same as if you won, and you re queue, and play another game, oh no the MMR went down? What does it mean? Nothing really you'll just go against weaker enemies next game, maybe you'll win.
4:24 Before MMR I had it both ways. That's why I hate it.
The first few minutes of the video reads exactly like a comment I left on the dowsey video talking about the game dying because of MMR. The reaction to MMR is like a shared delusion between the players.
Pyrex plus Clorox 2 will get you back into the field so your kid can shine. Nice ad for a dbd video on an account where I watch politics and gaming.
I do think that more ppl are playing sweaty now bc of sbmm. For the simple reason that they like an invisible number increasing.
But I can't say for sure. Only comparison I could take is that usually when I played Killer during 10am ~ 4pm I run into 1 or 2 dh every match. Now I run into 4 dh every match + 1 Boon and everyone having at least 1 second chance perk. Most of the times 2. Just no variety anymore, but that has been a thing before mmr too, so.
The problem with the entire game is that you need to fastly outskill survivors to get even close to winning. For survivors on the other hand it's all about what kind of unbalanced shit you bring and you win by default. The fact that I face many teams that just predrop pallets and win because their bnp prove thyself teammate afks on a gen shows something is fastly wrong with the game balance. Bhvr is so oblivious to it, it's sad as fuck
I agree 100%. the MMR is the biggset placebo effect I've ever seen in my life. whats funny is that on the day the MMR was supposed to go live some people on the DbD reddit didn't know the exact time it went live, so they thought it was already live even though it actually wasn't, it was just a few hours difference. but of course they still started writing posts about how the system sucks and how much sweatier it suddenly is even though the new MMR system wasn't even live at that point, that's something that always stayed in my mind cause it just shows how big of a placebo effect the MMR system really was and still is.
sometimes I get players with 3k hours, sometimes I get players with 300 hours, it's random, it's exactly as random as the old system, probably even worse. It's not any harder to win games but it's also not much easier. If I wouldn't know the matchmaking had changed I probably wouldn't think about it twice to be honest.
I also don't get the argument that playing nice doesn't get you constant wins. yea, no shit, if you basically handicap yourself your win chances go down. shocker. all in all I think a big majoritiy of this community is just bored with the game and now they have the MMR to project all their frustration on. take a break. go play something else for a couple of months.
they should just make an mmr system based on the medal system since it actually accounts for how u much actually do in a match and a crouching blendette that does nothing but escapes at then end doesnt get positive mmr while the chad gamer who got chased for 5 minutes did 2 gens and got unhooks/heals and gets tunneled/camped gets negative mmr. They could put a multiplicator on how many survivors escaped so player dont try to ego escape but try more to get as many people out as possible (which should be the objective right?) even tho it might get themnselves killed
do people still not realise how op some killers are? the more i play and try to counter them the more i realise how broken they are… like nemo, how does a physical object (the whip) go through stuff… why does he have zombies, why can he break pallets at 2nd stage, why does he get no penalties at all for using his infinite number of whips??
i really don’t understand how you killer mains complain about anything
I could go on for weeks about how ridiculous some of these kits are but because influencers like true complain 24/7 about stuff that is balanced and then defend the broken shit, it just leads to retarded fans believing it all when its such biased nonsense
That's more or less it. The decisions and strategies that help you win the most consistently and effectively are also the least fun to play against. It's a fundamental problem with the design of the game. Decrease interaction with the other team and increase your win rate. The killer can't kill you if you rush gens and leave, and the survivor can't escape if you stand in front of the hook and watch them die. The design of the game needs to shift into making interaction the most viable tactic, and making non-interaction much less viable.
…but we're talking about BHVR here.
I would like the see Scotts thoughts on Tofu's video about MMR. Tofu brought up some interesting points and thoughts.
Yeah I also see a lot of good players sandbagging to lower mmr lobbies. So it's extre messed up. Not so great survivors in high mmr and great survivors in mid to low mmr.
Well i can personally confirm it works because consistent winning makes the game very difficult regardless of your role.
As a killer :
I used to let people out because back in the older system there wasn't real reason to kill everyone, now when i am doing it the game puts me with the basic megs, Bills, Claudettes, Dwights 15 hours into the game.
As a Survivor:
This rule doesn't apply the same since most of the escapes i believe I've earned so i should take it, regardless of how high it will place me, so now i am facing God tier 5k into the game P3 sweaty TTvs because i escaped few times the game thinks now i am a God at Dbd.
Bottom line is MMR is punishing you as a player for playing well, where the old system it wasn't 100% guaranteed you'll be forced to deal with sweaty P3s on both sides with the most broken meta and you could have both chilly and sweaty games depending on luck, now it's "oh my MMR is too low, oh my MMR is too high"
"If you're playing the 1 vs the 4, you are always gonna be more stressed, no matter how balanced the game is."
*Laughs in Friday the 13th, 7v1, no-stress Jason.
Game bad
The guy that said 'as the devs intented' has a little bit of a point. The original intend of the devs was to make a super casual game, but after early testing they found out really fast that it all breaks down if even 1 person tries to win instead of having fun. This is from some old dev interview I saw, don't remember which.
In all seriousness, though, I think MMR was a problem at first. Why? Because Killer mains gained a LOT of MMR from easy matches between March and September 2021, and were matched against mostly the super sweaty SWFs who could consistently escape.
Now though, MMR has settled, but other issues have arisen; Dead Hard hit validation and Boons, for example.
These have made matches sweatier by throwing balance against the wall, but people conflate this with MMR.
On top of this, adding such a big reward for hitting Iri 1 while resetting to Ash 4 every month makes people sweat for higher Emblems. Play nice and you'll probably Brutal Killer, and miss out on 2,000,000 BP at the end of the month.
The real problem is 200 god pallets on Gideon meat plant
Hi scott
The problem with mmr: When u start playing killer your objective is to learn the basics, maybe get a kill per game. When u have a few houmdred hours your objective is maybe to learn better this killer or this other one, reach "red ranks". Whe pn u have a thousand maybe your objective now is to master this killer u enjoy a lot, reach "rank 1", get 2 kills or more per game. When u have thousands of hours whats new ? What is there to do ? Get a win as clean as possible, maybe before mmr your objective was to get a 4k before they openned any gate, 4k consistently without gen control perks and add-ons. Now with mmr what do these people have ? The only goals they had before are now only achiveable if they abuse broken bs or play like dicks. What if they dont enjoy playing like that ? I didnt run gen control perks before mmr becouse I didnt need to. But when they first introduced sbmm I was force to use them if wanted the same results as before, I started to win again, but at what cost ? No more funny impossible skillcheck doctor build, no more iron maiden huntress or trickster, 4king only becouse I tunneled one guy out of the game and I sluged 3 guys at the same time after dealing with their respectives unbrekables… Dead hard, ds, unbrekable, soulguard, bt all games all survivors. I no longer run these "meta" perks, I no longer tunnel/proxy camp becouse it wasnt satisfying to win that game,, if I maneged ton win, if not the ammount of t-bags and trashtalk I would see would be unimaginable. Are you telling me that I no longer can enjoy the game like before becouse their devs dont want to admit that they are wrong and dont want to revert the changes ? See you in Evolve then, I'll be playing monster.
"you're just bored of the game"
and we have the perfect solution for that: go play something else, like civ 5
Where I stand is MMR has exposed to more people how the game is played at a high level. Camping tunneling, efficient gens, 2 chance perks ect. All these make both survivor and killer games very boring, regardless of if you win or not. This is why you balance a game from the top down, as the high skill players strategies inevitably trickle down to the mass playerbase. Saying that the game shouldn't have a high level or high level players shouldn't have fun games with other hi level players seems idiotic to me. In response to Scott's point that killers would still play sweaty if the game was more balanced, then we balance the game so it's less rewarding to camp and tunnel. Eg there's a camaraderie mechanic that triggers if the killer is standing next to the hook. Noed could also be removed if the game was more balanced. Idk saying that there couldn't be changes to make the game more fun is crazy. If it stays like this, there will come a time when everyone apart from hackers stops playing it. I know I'm very close to that point.
People who play this game prettymuch for life: The High MMR Paradox – Dead by Daylight
People who reached a point where they cant get 5 4K in a row: No
MMR is so funny, i get matched with an oni who thinks his power is once per game and then next game i get otz (literally)
I think that there is some "evidence" that would explain why people saying that they are more stressed than they were before and/or why people claim that games are more "sweaty".
MMR pretty much incentivizes that survivors focus gens and get out to "win" (to the point where they almost let people die on hooks for it). And sicnekillers needs to get kills to "win" they resort to more camping/tunneling because the most efficient way of getting kills is making sure 1 survivor dies quickly so that they can apply more pressure later (in most cases). Wether or not MMR means something doesn't seem to matter. Once players understood what a "win" was they adapted to it and I believe THAT'S why people are more stressed/having less fun/think games are sweatier.
If people at high MMR want to win that badly they will play in the most optimized way to do so. And in this version of MMR "optimized ≠ fun" for most people. If they made MMR more similar to the pipping system where you'd have to do multiple different things in a match in order for your MMR to increase I believe we'd be seeing less complaints about genrushing/camping/tunneling. It would still be there obviously but there would be less of it.
My point being that, while I agree with most that Scott is saying, I disagree with the point that the game is the same now compared to before MMR was implemented. You might have a different experience to me but I feel like the game has shifted towards "doing what MMR wants you to do" ever since it was revealed how it worked.
Elden ring will end dbd that’s for sure
Honestly, i have no problem with the MMR system at all. Yeah, you get the oe two matches the day where MMR completely screws you over. But honestly, i have more problems with playing against Dead Hard and Circle of Healing. There is not a single game where i don't see at least one Dead Hard on a survivor and i always, ALWAYS get hit validated and it makes me unironiclly stressed to not play killer. And Circle of Healing makes many hit and run perks like Thanato really hard to play. A little rebalance would do the game good i think, but overall i agree.
is scott… harry potter?
Maybe they introduced mmr cause the only really game mode is ranked
I think people like dowsey and otzs are the only ones who can complain really since they're so boosted they do go against the worst of it, but also idk what the fuck I'm talking about because I stopped playing the game months ago.
Answering your last question in the video @Scott, the MMR. It was implemented to help killers players to match teams with the same skill level when switching killers
Answering your last question in the video @Scott: the MMR was implemented to help killers players to match teams with the same skill level when switching killers
i more so dont like mmr because i would like to not have to play like 10,000 dollars and the lives of my entire family is on the line, in dbd; a game that losing can literally be determined on the rng placement of basically everything in the game which is mainly why i stopped playing.
What a terrible arguement from Scott, saying that because there hasn't been change there should continue to be none. Where would we get as a society if that's the attitude we all had. Well slavery has existed forever, nothing we can do about it. Its wishful thinking to think we can change that so you should all just stop trying. Wtf
It would be cool if they just added a ranked mode, even if it wasn’t that good I would still enjoy it more